Criticism of the political administration of Jeddah doesn’t belong in the pulpit, Saudi Arabia’s Ministry of Islamic Affairs is cautioning. Saudi Gazette/Okaz reports that the Ministry has told imams and khateebs to tone down their attacks on the Mayor and other municipal officials following last month’s killer floods. I take this to mean that the government wants to put some space between religion and government, at least in this case while the government conducts its investigation into the causes of the floods.
The article notes that some 30 mosques were damaged by the flooding, most receiving minimal damage.
Corruption is a fine topic for hellfire and damnation sermons, but it really should be based on some sort of fact. Flinging allegation of corruption at individuals needs substantiation, not just logical deduction. Whatever the failings of the municipality, I doubt that they are the doings of the current Mayor all by himself.
Mosques told to ‘ease off’ Mayor
Naeem Tamim Al-HakimJEDDAH – The Ministry of Islamic Affairs has warned imams and those giving Friday sermons to refrain from apportioning blame over the Jeddah floods and to instead concentrate on “consoling bereaved families” in this and coming Friday sermons.
“A lot of families of victims are going through a terrible time at the moment because of the disaster and the emotional, physical and financial tragedies it has left in its wake, so the ministry has advised that sermons keep to consolation and care from the aspect of Shariah,” said the Manager of the Ministry’s Endowments and Mosques in Jeddah, Sheikh Faheed Al-Barqi.
“This is part of the ministry’s continuous program of the state’s involvement in helping the public tackle problems of all types, as the Friday sermon is the pulse of the people,” Al-Barqi said.
According to Al-Barqi, a missive from the ministry has advised that sermons refrain from “addressing the Mayor’s office or any other authority”.
“The pulpit was not put there for the settling of scores,” he said, adding that no reports had been received of any sermons attacking authorities, “either the Mayor’s Office or anyone else.” Any reported instances, however, “will not go unpunished”.
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December:17:2009 - 10:52
Aren’t the Friday sermons prepared by the government? I guess some may sway from the verbatim Friday sermons every now again to take a jab BUT they will NOT go unpunished.
IF I took ten riyals for everytime they have attacked the Kuffar I would be RICH!
I’m sorry but I don’t believe this story.
December:17:2009 - 11:17
“Flinging allegation of corruption at individuals needs substantiation”
That will never happen in a system as opaque as KSA’s. What the gov’t doesn’t like is fiery sermons criticizing them. They’re fine with anti-Semitic rants about Israel, histrionics about cartoons, or anti-Western screeds about how allowing women in the same room with men is a “foreign corruption.”
But when the magnifying glass is turned on them by the “whabbists” they get a little uncomfortable. Me? I love any time the pulpit turns on its master and Saudi religious leaders are willing to go nuts about their own government instead of stuff that doesn’t affect them (but serves as a distraction as the royals buy up villas, property in the West and dump petro-dollars in Swiss bank accounts).
By the way, the West is more than happy to facilitate all this corruption. As long as Saudi buys their jets and let’s them joint venture on projects in this country awash with petrodollars, they really couldn’t care less if women drive or people get flooded in Jeddah. On the contrary, with regards to the Jeddah floods: more contracts!
December:17:2009 - 11:25
Anonomous I couldn’t help but smile devilishly at your post!
Hey they are gonna pull their cash if those minarets DON’T GO UP! LOL
The Saudis wealthy elite need to learn they are NOT and I mean NOT the only GlOBAL HighroLers in the world.
Busta Rhymes taught me that LMAO
December:17:2009 - 12:20
Well, believe me there is plenty of corruption in the USA, especially from the past administration on the whole war profiteering thing. (Not to mention the back-room energy policy stuff Cheney refuses to make public.) They’ll probably never get around to tracking down the $7 billion of taxpayer money of that “disappeared” into the treacherous crap-hole called Iraq war contracting. Not only is this corruption, but it was corruption at the expense of the safety of American soldiers who are just pawns. (And in some cases pariahs, as was the case with the Abu Ghraib thing, where murder was committed by intelligence operatives and possibly even private “contractors” but everyone was taught to focus just on the pictures, to blame the soldiers, and not ask about the story behind the pics, including the pics of that body on ice that we wouldn’t know about had Lynnie England had not taken those pictures!)
God, now I’m going off on a tangent about American-style corruption. OK, back to Saudi corruption.
December:17:2009 - 12:26
I know a lot crap went down in Iraq and I am with you in that I support the troops despite whatever else goes down.
What corruption is more painful
I believe there was and is a purpose and a useful one that we went into IRaq but for some reason they don’t want to say what it is and I don’t really have the answer.
December:17:2009 - 13:38
Sermons aren’t prepared by the government. Rather, themes are given along with strong suggestions that this! topic is what we want you to talk about.
Not very different from the Catholic Church, actually… Bishops and Cardinals pass along the themes to be addressed in sermons. The clergy is given latitude on just how to address the issues, but they aren’t supposed to go too far off the reservation, either.
December:17:2009 - 14:07
So isn’t that then contradictory to say pull politics from the sermons when it is the politicians who are setting the “pulse of the people” when setting the theme/ topic. Anyhow, give me any topic and I can take it anywhere including the moon
December:17:2009 - 14:19
Well, the general neo-con argument was that by following the ‘realist’ mode of international relations over the past 40 years, the Middle East was not showing any sort of ‘progress’ as a Westerner would understand it. Worse, the problems were growing bigger and more deadly.
By removing the worst of the worst, perhaps something better would arise. There were unfulfilled hopes on that front, as Iraq has plainly demonstrated. But still, today’s Iraq is arguably safer–for Iraqis–than it was under Saddam. It’s certainly not as tidy and the violence is coming from and going in different directions. And who knows what it will look like in 10 or 20 years?
The arch neo-cons went one step further, though… they posited that even if Iraq turned out a total mess, it would still be better than it was. Further yet, kicking over the anthill served its own purpose, if for nothing more than to demonstrate that the US would not put up with the status quo if it meant that Americans would die. That, it was believed, would provide a useful lesson for other states in the region.
December:17:2009 - 14:22
Not really, IMO. Governments and religions have the right to express opinions. The problems come when they prevent opinions not in line with the ‘party line’ from being expressed.
I don’t recall any document foundational to the KSA that even mentions ‘pulse of the people’, never mind giving it political weight. Just saying…
December:17:2009 - 14:36
I don’t recall any document is probably the best statement of the day…or any enforced document…better yet
December:17:2009 - 15:38
There is the issue of organizations that receive special tax status (in the US) who use the pulpit to endorse a presidential candidate, which I find stinky. Or the Armani preachers of New Orleans who tell their congregants to support the mayor, and use them to rally and accuse local critics of racism, who also own businesses that get project funding.
Who would go to a church that endorses a presidential candidate from the pulpit of God or uses congregants to defend a political figure? I don’t know. I support free speech so it doesn’t bother me that much, but church and politics should really never mix and congregants should be more savvy about that.
I suppose in KSA that is more difficult. Remember the “Gold List” of Jeddah municipal council members? That was orchestrated by conservative imams. I suppose, however, that any form of political endorsement in an electoral process in KSA is to be given credit. After all, if KSA were a democracy tomorrow, I think the religious conservatives would take control, but I would like to think they would be Islamist democratic moderates, like the ones the gov’t framed as terrorists and still have them in jail, which everyone seems to have forgotten. (I think they’re called the “Jeddah Seven” or something like that.) All they were saying was that democracy would bolster the modern Islamic state. And we’re talking about activist women (in some cases) who wore niqab and supported conservatism. They’re the ones getting framed and incarcerated because they’re a bigger threat then the liberals, who do not have popular support.
PS: I don’t know a whole lot about these folks. I’d be curious if anyone has more information. I believe some are still in jail. A guy I know visited them and they were middle class family members, not terrorists. In any case, I think it would be healthy for Saudi to further the loosening of public participation, and the West should get over their concerns that “radicals” would be the end result of that process. There are a lot of outstanding conservatives in KSA; they just don’t have a voice if they step over the line and begin advocating for more public participation.
December:17:2009 - 23:23
Anonomous I willl try to find out about the status of those folks. Btw, I don’t understand what you mean by niqabi conservative women being jailed. This is the first time I have heard this…and specifically that they are a bigger threat than the liberals.
OMG the Jeddah Seven…I think there is a Sudairi 7…I think they are the DUPED SEVEN!
I recommend PRince Naif moving to Palestine because he does a great job for them and he has received a reward from the UN or some sort for his work there.
December:17:2009 - 23:37
Please excuse my telepathic communications of which I alter in subconcious states of mind HAH
lalalalalalalalaweeeeeeee
lalalalalalalalalweeeeeee
December:18:2009 - 13:49
“But still, today’s Iraq is arguably safer–for Iraqis–than it was under Saddam.”
Arguably indeed. Setting aside the refugees who probably are safer (because they’re in Syria and other places) there are plenty of reports that the police apparatus today is reverting back to the old Baathist style of police work. They’re just pulling out the fingernails in concrete cells of different dissidents than the ones under Saddam.
Just for one recent example: the US has shipped $150 million of US taxpayer money as military aid a year to the brutal, murderous regime of Islam Karimov (also supplying him with “law enforcement” training and police batons). To say Iraqis need to be saved with Freedom Bombs(tm) while we prop up Karimov is total hypocrisy.
December:18:2009 - 13:52
Sparky: there is a group of people that were arrested on trumped up “terrorism” charges because they were holding meeting at their homes to discuss making Saudi Arabia more democratic on the basis that if this were to happen Saudi Arabia would become an Islamic democracy. Some of those people are still in jail, including I believe at least one woman.
December:18:2009 - 14:44
Anonymous, I know about these people you are referring to but not the woman. I will try to find out about them. Unfortunately America keeps propping up and will prop up any regime that suits their strategy. I don’t think they care much about how the people abroad suffer or if they are at all informed by the “right” people. There are good people out there like John and others who try to stay informed and inform others.
People die on both sides. I believe Iraq was a balance of power war but that rhetoric wouldn’t have mothers sending their kids to war to die…They needed something more convincing so they chose to lie but they don’t understand that LIARS ARE ALWAYS EXPOSED!
People are in denial about many of things. America sits friendly with Saudi but because we can have a few planes fly over their lands blah blah. American citizens are alienated by their own embassy here in KSA of which I will not get into at this blog. The mentality of understand our mission is getting old. People on both sides (America and Saudi) want change! I spent the last year in the US and I see how people are suffering. I believe it is safe to say many of people are pissed. That aside and all the problems of the world aside I would much rather live in a democracy than under the mercy of an absolute dictator or monarch. And yes I do want Saudi and America to be friends but not at the expense of Tom Dicks and Harry’s (the tom, dick and harry is a many a previous a joke prior [insider joke]). I think it was a T D & H who took down the world trade centers unless you believe in some mass conspiracy theory. On top of that you get articles like this one we are commenting on giving warnings and threats to people. Whether there was an actual incident or not is questionable. Where was the government when they were asking to make Jews orphans and “hasbeallah a la Amerika”. To Saudi I say and to any other listener “Saudi is not the pulpit of ISLAM nor should they claim to be nor are they entitled to be it!” Yes, I agree they have a special geographic position but besides that get off the high horse because they have tarnished it badly. The pulpit of Islam should be in focus not the bricks and cement of a minaret and every Muslim reading this knows what I am talking about and I am sure even non-Muslims understand it.
Then you have stolen emails in denial about global warming etc. etc. It is a tug of war and I band together with all T D H in my pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness irrespective of my country of residence. I am a mother of 3 Saudi children yet I haven’t more rights than that of a housemaid. It doesn’t take long to figure out where my loyalties lie. At any rate, I understand how people can point the finger at the US and blame them for their situation BUT unless they apply pressure just like people do in the US nothing is going to change. I don’t if that speech made any sense but it is from the heart.
December:19:2009 - 09:00
Anonymous: I spoke to Ibrahim Al Mugaiteeb today and he said there was a Jeddah 9 now standing at a Jeddah 8 because one prisoner was released. Lawyers do not have access to the other 8. He said these people are the furthest from terrorism and I believe him. He is not aware of any jailed female. Here is the website for Human Rights First Saudi Arabia. I am a member…not that active though
http://hrfssaudiarabia.org/
PEACE
December:19:2009 - 11:18
“He said these people are the furthest from terrorism and I believe him.”
And he’s right. Thanks for the info. Maybe the one that was released was a woman, or maybe I am thinking of the visitors who have been denied access being women. My point was they’re conservative Islamic reformists, which is a bigger threat than the liberals. These people (and probably others) are completely innocent of “terrorism” — but they get less sympathy from the West because they’re not liberals. I beleive if any change comes to this country it will come from conservatives themselves and not Westernized, wealthy liberals who spend half their time in the UK and US who can easily be dismissed as “corrupted” by Western values.
December:19:2009 - 12:16
anonymous: You are welcome.
I am watching “Planet 51″ right now with my kids. I have many things to reply to your post. So I will be back in a jiffy.
December:19:2009 - 13:53
“…they get less sympathy from the West because they’re not liberals.”
That statement I would agree with because people get unsure asking themselves questions like, “What are these people really up to?” Especially when they hear words like “corrupted Western values” (that is a red flashing danger sign to me) because the person making such statements is already obviously vehemently opposed to Western existence. I think if one studies “western values” one would find that there really isn’t such a thing as “western values” and no one is at the pulpit preaching “western values”. Values are shaped by more that a left side of a hemisphere.
You said, “I beleive if any change comes to this country it will come from conservatives themselves and not Westernized, wealthy liberals who spend half their time in the UK and US who can easily be dismissed as “corrupted” by Western values.”
I think Mr. Mugaiteeb would disagree. He is non-discriminatory in who becomes a member of Human Rights First with the exception that each one must vow to non-violence. He welcomes all who are non-violent. I’m guessing you are thinking that I am liberal. You would be correct. To be exact I am registered to vote as a libertarian. I was a democrat for a long time but always a Pro-Life advocate. I would recommend reading on the libertarian political party if you are not already familiar with it. I do not belong to any political parties outside of the US. I don’t consider myself “wealthy”. I guess you could say I am Saudi middle class working my way up. When I say work, I mean it. Nothing has EVER been handed to us. My first year in Saudi I spent living with my in-laws and another 8 months in a small apartment with no phone, no furniture and NO LIFE. The experience of in-law life and that apartment experience brought upon me a darkness like no other. I had people upstairs jumping constantly over my head in which the lights would shake. I never got any sleep. They would drill at 2:00 a.m. 3:00 a.m. etc. The busy highway was non-stop as the building wasn’t built well and I could hear the sound of fast moving cars non-stop. The only relief I got was a channel on Star T.V. in which is showed very old reruns of the Love Boat. Oprah aired, of which I caught occasionally, only depressed me more because everything was upbeat over there and I was basically in complete misery. After that I moved into a duplex right across from a mosque.
Now I could only dream to live not half my life in the US but all of it there but the current reality is that I can’t at this point in time. “Corrupted by Western values” completely rubs me the wrong way. Can’t Muslims be corrupted as Westerners and is corruption a world alien to superhuman perfected Muslims? NO! Islam teaches that God created man so that he sins and returns in repentance when he has done wrong. God teaches in the Quran that is better to repel the evil deed with one which is better so that whatever enmity was there can be erased and they can become close. The beauty of Islam exists only without coercion in my opinion. When it is forced upon people, it loses its authenticity and genuineness.
And my last words are, “IF any of these people would dismiss me or the likes of me on the presumption of me being “corrupted by Western values” then they would lose ALL MY SUPPORT! Simply because I would agree that such people are dangerous and a danger to all around them because of their narrow mindedness.
December:19:2009 - 14:09
P.S. not everyone calling on a constitutional monarchy is jailed. I have heard that those arrested were collecting money or something to that effect.
PEACE
December:19:2009 - 14:24
I’d heard that too. Not being there, I can’t evaluate the validity of that claim. It could be true; it could be a convenient excuse. Some whom I respect have said that the charges were trumped up.
I know that there are a lot of things being done in the name of suppressing terrorism around the world. I just can’t tell whether this one of them.
December:19:2009 - 19:51
Wow, Sparky. Thanks for the insight! I don’t mean to say that I believe these are “Western values”; I just mean that this is how they sometimes portray it, and by “they” I don’t mean people with conservative and religious values, but rather those that want to, as you say, “force” a certain set of values. But when I say this I always think about how this is done in the USA. I grew up in a state with Christian madrassas (Baptist high schools) as well as colleges (there were two Christian universities where I grew up). However, that said, I do find that most Americans believe in freedom of religion, better so than in Europe. On the other hand, the “free” market, neoliberal rhetoric (coupled with a lot of moldy Cold War rhetoric, except that instead of Commies it’s now Jihadis) of both the Republicans and the Democrats strikes me as a “secular” form of proselytizing, and I find a lot of failure in this “religion,” too. It angers me that the values we love in the USA doesn’t translate into the same in foreign policy. The US, like any other country — from the modern industrialized state to the most back-water dictatorship — will always compromise values for pragmatic hypocrisy. The only difference between the modern industrialized state and the most back-water dictatorship in this regard is the former has economic and technological might to export its “muscle” while the latter can only focus on repressing its people locally or regionally.
But I digress. (I’m really fed up with US foreign policy as defined by my previous 2 generations.)