The full extent of the disastrous Jeddah floods is still being determined, Saudi media report. Arab News gives the latest tallies of deaths and displacements, noting that there are still people missing.
Jeddah flood toll reaches 113
Muhammad Humaidan | Arab NewsJEDDAH: Jeddah witnessed light rain on Friday afternoon causing locals to fear a repeat of last week’s deluge and ensuing floods that immersed entire districts, destroyed thousands of cars and killed an unknown number of people.
Civil Defense and Director of Disaster Management Brig. Muhammad Al-Qarni told Arab News on Friday that the official number of flood victims stood at 113 and the number of missing increased to 48.
Al-Qarni said that the committees formed to find housing for the victims managed to provide shelter to 5,104 families comprising 19,950 people. He said that the committee also distributed aid to 5,341 families comprising 20,729 persons.
…
Some of those missing may be in a large pit, left by incomplete project construction undertaken by, but also abandoned by, the National Water Company, the paper reports. This hazard, about which nearby residents had been complaining for months, provided a repository for vehicles swept away in the flash flooding, many with victims still inside.
‘Death hole’ at Kilo 11 holds many bodies
JEDDAH: No one paid much attention to the huge gathering of people around a big hole located at Kilo 11 near Um Al-Salam district east of the Haramain Expressway.
People are now used to seeing such gatherings everywhere because of the rescue operations and recovery of bodies. That location is particularly unique because many people are calling that location “the death hole,” because underneath is a large number of bodies that are not yet recovered.
People gathering in that hole ignore the simple rule of safety: Stay away from danger areas. Nosy people are camping in that area day and night, waiting for a body to be discovered. The nosy people are gathering next to the backhoe, which could accidentally hit one of the bystanders during excavation efforts.
According to the residents in the area, the hole belongs to the National Water Company. The company has been conducting a project on that site for the past 18 months, but in the past five months the company put the project on hold and covered the hole. The hole is 16 meters deep.
The fast-moving floodwater dragged all the cars to this hole. One of the worst tragedies ever to be told about this hole is the discovery of the body of 10 people, five of them from one family. Efforts are still continuing even after more than one week from the rain to recover the bodies and cars buried underneath.
…
Saudi Gazette/Okaz report that the investigation into the causes of the failure of flood prevention is starting up with a look at what has gone before. That’s a reasonable place to begin, determining earlier assessments of the dangers and the quality of the steps taken to mitigate them.
History of flood-damaged districts under scrutiny
Faleh Al-DhuyabiJEDDAH – The investigation committee formed by King Abdullah to probe the Jeddah rainstorm disaster is scheduled to start its work Saturday.
The committee is tasked with establishing the cause and trying to determine the responsibility for the death of over 100 people and the massive damage of private and public properties.
The committee is seeking the help of experts to study floodwater drainage projects in Jeddah to probe whether they have met the standards set in the bid contract. The group of experts, according to sources, will be carefully selected to enable them to study the design of the drainage network and follow its course throughout the city.
…
Meanwhile, residents of Riyadh are getting nervous. Rain is predicted for the central Nejd and the capital’s drainage infrastructure is in no better shape than Jeddah’s was. Riyadh has seen serious flooding—though less damaging—over the past two years. Residents aren’t encouraged by official statements about re-evaluating the system after the rain. I wonder why…
Rains leave Riyadh residents wondering: What is in store for us?
RSS feed for comments on this post.
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.
December:05:2009 - 11:47
20,000 displaced
4,000-7,000 cars destroyed
entire districts flooded
AND
113 dead
This death “tally” smells funny to me. Maybe they’re just working very slowly. I don’t know.
I suggest wording it this way:
“gives the latest *OFFICIAL* tallies of deaths and displacements.”
Because these areas have been neglected for so long, and are populated by undocumented residents, over-stayers and stateless people we may never have an accurate death count. I don’t think the authorities have any incentive to be accurate with this number. Plus, this tradition of rushing the dead to burial — who know how people who live “off the grid” are dealing with the dead — they’re so used to having to deal with everything on their own — from buying their own water deliveries to having their own sewage pumped out. They could be burying the dead in the desert for all we know. Certainly if you’re illegal you’re not gonna take grandma to the authorities for proper, legal burial.
December:05:2009 - 13:53
According to the Guardian last week there were 500 dead and the officials were deliberately minimizing the number of dead.
There will be many more bodies found and they may or may not make it to an official list, for the reasons you describe. There will probably be a morbidity and mortality list from secondary infections as a result of stagnating water, which also may or may not become “official”.
December:05:2009 - 14:29
The death toll “smells” is right. I’m so upset these days, I mostly sputter.
December:05:2009 - 14:50
I don’t find the Guardian to be the most reliable paper out there. I’ve no doubt that someone gave them that number, but just who that might have been is a puzzle. The number could be correct, it could even be a low-ball estimate in itself, but I’ll wait for better sourced numbers before I commit.
December:05:2009 - 15:40
Yes the Guardian is both unreliable and biased, but that particular article looked better sourced than others; and, as Sandy, said the number smells accurate, after seeing the pictures and watching the videos of cars full of families carried uncontrollably by the torrent, while passersby shout helplessly trying to figure out how to prevent the inevitable.
December:05:2009 - 19:40
The government should publish the names of the dead. When a family sees their loved one NOT on the list, I’d believe they would have incentive to call and add the missing name(if not an overstayer or illegal). I’d want recognition of my dead relative and would want the news made public in case others hadn’t heard of his/her tragedy.
That’s one way to build an accurate account of the dead.
December:05:2009 - 21:02
Another way is to go through the morgue records, as the British MDs did to get an accurate count of the civilian dead in Iraq (and then published it in the British Medical Journal, much to the chagrin of the Bush Administration). Their count for Baghdad alone was far higher than the “official” number.
December:05:2009 - 22:09
The Lancet’s account has been thoroughly discredited. I’m not aware of a report by the BMJ, but if you could provide a link, I’ll be happy to look.
This is somewhat tangential to the issue in Jeddah though. In Saudi Arabia, the don’t generally use ‘morgues’ as we understand the term. The dead are taken away, to be claimed immediately by their families who arrange for the proper rituals for burial. Official actions don’t go much further than to put a name to the remains. As many bodies–perhaps even most–were simply recovered by the families, I doubt that there’s any truly useful documentation or count.
Then there’s the problem of non-Saudis… this article from Arab News shines a gruesome spotlight: The mystery of bodies in streets
December:05:2009 - 22:27
I find something amiss in that mystery of bodies in the streets. I realize there are overstayers and undoubtedly there will be unknown bodies, but all those other stories of Indonesian women of that age group ending up dead in dumpsters is strange. Very little forensic science going on here.
I think there is a different story behind that!
December:06:2009 - 10:08
The Guardian figure, as you can read in the article, was citing Al-Yawm. I agree that the Guardian (like many UK pubs) are unreliable and prone to publishing innuendo.
December:06:2009 - 10:12
I agree with John on the Lancet article re. Iraq dead: in a nutshell they applied the same methodology in a combat zone that they would use in reporting incidences of, say, malaria. There is a very justifiable argument that you can’t apply health-stat-related methodologies when interviewing people whose country has been invaded and occupied by a foreign power following years of street-to-street combat. I suspect the figure is higher than Bush’s 40,000 dead and the Lancet figure.
Either one of these figures makes me ill to my stomach and angry at my country (and my fellow Americans who voted for those warmongering turd-blossoms of the Bush administration not once but twice) — but, yeah, Lancet’s study is flawed.
December:06:2009 - 12:28
(raises hand) I voted for that “warmongering turd-blossom not once but twice.” To add insult to anonymous … I worked on the local campaign as well.
Let the seething begin.
December:06:2009 - 14:59
Yep, I may lose readers, but I’m in that select group, too!
December:06:2009 - 15:06
I just say let’s make love not war!
December:06:2009 - 15:35
Well I hope you guys are willing to take credit for the amazing successes of the administration you voted for (twice) instead of believing history began on Jan. 20. That said: I don’t seethe — “turd-blossom” is a Bushism — one of his clever nick-names, for Karl Rove; very mature for a great US president. (Sarcasm)
December:06:2009 - 16:20
I don’t think readers here are into partisan politics but then again it would be interesting to know who the readers are…
Being a Bush supporter doesn’t equate to being a terrrorist supporter IMO. I got some good laughs out of Bush and I can relate to Bushisms. That aside, I never bought into his case for invading Iraq which made me basically hate him because I don’t like being played and lied to. I support the soldiers wherever they are, but there are things that are really unclear unless it has to deal with a bigger issues that are just “not discussed” for other reasons of which I have no idea (need to know basis only lmao).
I feel like America is not going to have a face off with Iran, but we will have to contend with Yemen on serious levels.
December:06:2009 - 16:39
Also I want to add as I am half asleep, uhmmhumhumh crap wait I forgot, ah remembered. I want to know what bone people have to pick with democracy. Like if I folded a sheet of paper in a couple of folds lets say three…
Democracy/ Communism/ BEST RELIGION (contest)
I would list the pros and cons of both. K and then say seriously which one would most diversity thrive and people be most able to follow their beliefs….blah blah dah dee dee dah that is with the most uniquishness and democracy. I’m guessing democracy I would see a bit of communism, best religion contest and a whole lotta other stuff. In communism, I would see people saying ‘shit is this what we wanted.” IN Best Religion contest, “now that everyone is dead there isn’t anything to do.”
NIGHT
December:06:2009 - 17:47
Actually, I think history began when people started writing things down. That was long before 01/20/2009. I think Bush had terrible faults, but was still better than the two men he was running against. And yes, he wasn’t running against Obama, though Obama’s campaign didn’t seem to quite realize that. Nor the electorate, apparently.
I think he erred in invading Iraq, too. I said that officially from Riyadh and still think that now that I’m no longer in State Dept.
December:06:2009 - 19:20
@Chiara: “Another way is to go through the morgue records,”
LOL! Try going up to a Saudi morgue to check the records.
@Sparky: “That aside, I never bought into his case for invading Iraq which made me basically hate him because I don’t like being played and lied to.”
Yes, I agree. I don’t like being lied to, or played.
@John: “I think he erred in invading Iraq, too.”
Yes, big err. Not as big as Medicare Prescription Drug Modernization Act or Katrina, but an err nonetheless. Bush wasn’t the problem; the problem was the party platform. In a “lesser of two evils” sense, that platform was worse than the one running against it. This isn’t about people; it’s about policy. I assumed you knew that until you said “better than the two men he was running against” which indicates that you engaged in the circus of cult of personality rather than platform. And even if you choose to focus on personalities; Bush was and is a dauphin, steered by a greater evil.
December:06:2009 - 19:40
Well, the presidential candidates do represent–personify, if you will–the party platforms. You can take my criticism as directed at the policies which the candidates had accepted as their own. In fact, though, my criticism focuses primarily on the execution of those policies and the feeble efforts made to explain them.
I won’t argue at all about Medicare. On Katrina, I think blame starts at the Mayor’s office (funny how that works!), then moves to the State government, and lastly to FEMA and the federal government. The photo of the hundreds of New Orleans school buses sitting under water while thousands were stranded in the city really inflames me. The fact that the Mayor couldn’t put his own evacuation plan into effect irks me to no end.
December:06:2009 - 19:55
I suspect the figure is higher than Bush’s 40,000 dead and the Lancet figure. Either one of these figures makes me ill to my stomach and angry at my country
Consider how many Iraqis Saddam executed every year (10,000?) to during his 24-year reign as supreme leader, and think of the hundreds of thousands (lowest estimate: 140,000) of Iraqis who died during his wars – all to secure his power as dictator. It might help you feel better.
December:06:2009 - 20:07
Sparky, I wrote about the Katrina disaster extensively at my blog. There is no doubt of the failure of evacuation planning at the local and state levels. (They actually gave up and had no plan to speak of.) Yet the proximate reason the hurricane spelled disaster for New Orleans was a flaw (or ambiguity) in the levee design that was exacerbated by the corrupt contracting and poorly-funded inspection process of their construction.
Sad to say, as soon as they could Louisiana and New Orleans made reconstruction as murky as possible, limiting critical information and responsibility to Louisianans only. No heads rolled, not even the mayor’s. Thus IMO there is no assurance that if another hurricane hits N.O. the city won’t experience exactly the same results as before.
December:06:2009 - 20:19
@Solomon2: “Consider how many Iraqis Saddam executed every year (10,000?) to during his 24-year reign ”
Does that include the Kurds gassed with weapons made with the help of the 700+ export licenses for pre-cursor agents granted under Reagan went he wanted Saddam to use WMDs against the Iranians?
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/74038683.html?dids=74038683:74038683&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&fmac=&date=Jul+22%2C+1992&author=R.+Jeffrey+Smith&desc=Dozens+of+U.S.+Items+Used+in+Iraq+Arms
And the media then later uses this as a “smoking gun” of proof of WMDs?? Expired Sarin gas from the Reagan era packed in Howitzer shells?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/19/opinion/sarin-what-sarin.html
So Saddam decided to use the WMDs the US helped him build against “his own people”; If you arm a despot, you can’t make judgments later about which people he is supposed to used those weapons against, He’s a despot! Why were we arming him with ILLEGAL WMDs in the first place? This only makes sense if you adhere to the tired old “Greatest Generation” and “Baby Boomer” mentality of the enemy of my enemy is my friend: gas Iranians but not the Kurds.
Detente is a failed Cold War idiocy. And to used it to divert our attention from those who took down the Towers is a treacherous policy.
And don’t get me started about no-bid arms contracts, or how private armed (US and British) contractors were used to make things worse, with the audacity of bossing American soldiers around.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/contractors/highrisk.html
For shame!
December:06:2009 - 20:55
@anonymous,
I think we are seeing some of the “amazing successes” play out in the region now. It wasn’t pretty, but invading Iraq and providing the groundwork for some semblance of a democracy to take root in the region has opened things up. The radical ideas are slowly getting pushed aside and the more moderate voices are feeling free to express themselves. Do you honestly believe that had we elected Kerry with his “global test” position on Iraq that we would have implemented the “surge” and seen its subsequent success? It’s evident to me that some bloggers, reporters, politicians, and regular everyday people in the region feel slightly more free to speak their mind against those that lord over them. This wouldn’t happen if Iraq had failed. Bush is directly responsible for freeing people. He’ll get credit for it one day.
Bush admits to reading Natan Sharansky’s “The Case for Democracy” and having it shape his world view. It’s a good book that explains how a dissident in a “fear society” is emboldened by a freedom minded US policy. Every tyrannical regime in the world wanted Bush to fail in Iraq. Why do you think that was?
December:06:2009 - 21:43
… didn’t want to derail the thread with a pro/con debate on Bush
December:06:2009 - 21:44
Good thing I didn’t cite the Lancet study, which I do remember reading and do remember doing my own critique, and then seeing it discredited.
I was referring to this: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7491/550#REF3
It is written by a public health specialist who reinforces the need for accurate body counts, and supports the methodology of http://www.iraqbodycount.org/, which includes multiple verified sources, “Data is drawn from cross-checked media reports, hospital, morgue, NGO and official figures to produce a credible record of known deaths and incidents.” The Western Standard article seems to support that source as well. As the BMJ points out these numbers are higher that those of the US or UK non-counting method:
“Instead the UK government’s policy was first not to count at all, and then to rely publicly on extremely limited data available from the Iraqi Ministry of Health. This follows US government policy; famously encapsulated by General Tommy Franks of the US Central Command “We don’t do body counts.”2″
There were 2 Lancet reports, the second is the most widely discredited.
I apologize if I mislead anyone by the use of the term “morgue”. I didn’t mean it in the keep them on ice indefinitely sense, or even the full autopsy sense, but only the place where bodies are collected officially and identified. I am aware of Muslim burial practices so wouldn’t expect bodies to be held beyond the minimum time necessary for identification and return.
Dr friends from MENA rely on reports from hospitals where their friends are working to more accurately assess the death toll of the latest government crackdown on whomever. These include accurate records of who was treated for what and died, and who was brought in dead from what cause. These types of records have also been accessed by other insiders and made available to appropriate outsiders.
The article on the dead overstayers found in the street is interesting, but it seems to me not relevent to this situation where one can expect death by drowning, and trauma ie found bodies in crashed cars, drying terrain etc, so they can be counted, whether they were there as legals, or illegals.
I certainly wouldn’t underestimate any country’s desire to minimize death tolls, especially in these circumstances, nor that of an absolute monarchy to do so. But someone always knows and the information usually leaks at some point in history (as defined accurately by John–usually considered to be from the time of writing, although much of that records oral history).