Here are two opinion pieces that fall on decidedly different sides of the arguments about Maj. Nidal Hasan, alleged to have killed 13 people at Ft. Hood.
Marc Lynch, arguing on the pages of Foreign Policy, points out that refueling the ‘clash of civilization’ that puts Americans against Islam is probably not where we want to go. Questioning the loyalty of American Muslims would play exactly into the game designed by Al-Qaeda, he says.
Ft. Hood and the Clash of Civilizations:
Security vs political correctness revisited
Marc LynchSince the Ft Hood atrocity, I’ve seen a meme going around that it somehow exposed a contradiction between “political correctness” and “security.” The avoidance of Nidal Hassan’s religion out of fear of offending anyone, goes the argument, created the conditions which allowed him to go undetected and unsanctioned in the months and years leading up to his rampage. American security, therefore, demands dropping the “political correctness” of avoiding a confrontation with Islamist ideas and asking the “tough questions” about Islam as a religion and the loyalty of Muslim-Americans.
This framing of the issue is almost 100% wrong. There is a connection between what these critics are calling “political correctness” and national security, but it runs in the opposite direction. The real linkage is that there is a strong security imperative to prevent the consolidation of a narrative in which America is engaged in a clash of civilizations with Islam, and instead to nurture a narrative in which al-Qaeda and its affiliates represent a marginal fringe to be jointly combatted. Fortunately, American leaders — from the Obama administration through General George Casey and top counter-terrorism officials — understand this and have been acting appropriately.
It’s worth walking through the connection once again, because how America responds to Ft. Hood really is important in the wider attempt to change the nature of its engagement with Muslim publics across the world. Get the response right, as the administration thus far has done, and they show that things really have changed. Get it wrong, as its critics demand, and the world could tumble back down into the ‘clash of civilizations’ trap which al-Qaeda so dearly wants and which the improved American approach of the last couple of years has increasingly denied it.
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Writing in The Washington Post, Charles Krauthammer has a problem with a media narrative that turns Maj. Hasan from a criminal into a victim. He points out that of the hundreds of other medical practitioners treating soldiers wounded in war, no other has found it necessary to turn a gun on his or her colleagues. He adamantly argues that media treatment of the story is Political Correctness run amok.
Medicalizing mass murder
Charles KrauthammerWhat a surprise — that someone who shouts “Allahu Akbar” (the “God is great” jihadist battle cry) as he is shooting up a room of American soldiers might have Islamist motives. It certainly was a surprise to the mainstream media, which spent the weekend after the Fort Hood massacre playing down Nidal Hasan’s religious beliefs.
“I cringe that he’s a Muslim. . . . I think he’s probably just a nut case,” said Newsweek’s Evan Thomas. Some were more adamant. Time’s Joe Klein decried “odious attempts by Jewish extremists . . . to argue that the massacre perpetrated by Nidal Hasan was somehow a direct consequence of his Islamic beliefs.” While none could match Klein’s peculiar cherchez-le-juif motif, the popular story line was of an Army psychiatrist driven over the edge by terrible stories he had heard from soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.
They suffered. He listened. He snapped.
Really? What about the doctors and nurses, the counselors and physical therapists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who every day hear and live with the pain and the suffering of returning soldiers? How many of them then picked up a gun and shot 51 innocents?
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November:14:2009 - 11:18
Marc Lynch don’t know Jack!
Go put your jeans on or wrap a scarf around your head and walk around America!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Anyone who puts his religion ahead of his country probably should not be in the army. Regardless of what that religion might be.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
He tried to resign, but wasn’t permitted to do so. The Army wanted to hold him to the multi-year contract he signed against the medical school education for which the Army paid.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
He tried to resign, but wasn’t permitted to do so.
John:
He signed the contract in full knowledge of what it entailed. His beliefs seem to be long-held ones, possibly predating his military career. I am saying he should not have signed up at all, knowing that religion held the most important value to him. Placing God above country is not necessarily a bad thing What I am saying, Dr. Hassan knowingly entered a contract which required a different standard, and then kicked up a fuss when his values would not be accommodated.
The Army was under no obligation to release him from his contract (though they should have taken him out for being unstable). If he wanted to be a conscientious objector, he could have done so. Other soldiers when faced with the same problem and gone to prison or moved to Canada.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
You’re right that the Army was under no obligation to release him, but in hindsight, it would have been the smarter thing to do.
As far as his ‘full knowledge’ goes, well people change their minds. Things happen in their lives that change their outlooks. What may have seemed attractive, six or seven years ago might not be so attractive or even tolerable now. I know many people who have gone through medical school or law school only to leave it after graduation because it wasn’t what they wanted: it was something somebody else thought they ought to want. And then, too, there are all those divorces…
It didn’t help matters, though, that he seems to have waited until he got deployment orders before he sought to leave the Army. That never looks good to the people who have to make the decisions.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Things happen in their lives that change their outlooks.
True. Happens to many of us. Most of us understand it is a part of life and suck it up.
Besides, there is no indication Dr. Hassan did this to please his family or something (to fit in with what “something somebody else thought they ought to want”). He made a wrong decision to sign up. I get it. I just don’t have any sympathy with his whining about it.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
If Major Dr Hasan signed on to the ROTC program to fund med school he did so about 11 years ago, if for pre-med about 16 (ie 1 year for application time, 3 pre-med 4 med, 5 psych training, and has a few years work experience). That means he signed on in the mid to late 90’s. He served stateside honourably, and was willing to continue doing so. He was willing to pay off monetarily the years not served. Why insist on making him a battlefield psychiatrist? This was a better outcome? or being a subpar therapist, or too depressed to practice, or crippled by PTSD later? Not good human resources management.
I see no evidence of whining, just desperate attempts to find a rational solution, and then one final desparate irrational one.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Why insist on making him a battlefield psychiatrist? This was a better outcome? I see no evidence of whining, just desperate attempts to find a rational solution, and then one final desparate irrational one.
The Army knows that a lot of people would welch out of their contractural obligations, if they only because civilian pay and working conditions makes a military doctor’s life unattractive by comparison. Why should a soldier or officer escape his military obligation by threats, either from himself or implied from the murderous history of his sectarian comrade?
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Umm… perhaps because losing money forwarded to train a doctor is less than losing 12 soldiers to death and at least a handful of others to wounds that will keep them out of duty?
That’s just math, not philosophy.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
So Americans should give in to domestic terrorism?
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Major Dr Hasan was prepared to serve stateside, which would have freed someone else to serve in a combat zone with high civilian Muslim casualties.
The money invested in his training would have continued to pay off for the military if he had been allowed to continue his work treating the addicted and traumatized, and doing research for the US government on how to deal with Muslim American Soldiers, how to understand Muslim civilian populations in the military theatre, and the mentality of the extremists.
Most Drs have sufficient integrity and sufficient vulnerability regarding licensing not to welch out on a contract. Major Hasan hired a lawyer to help him honour his without seeing combat duty in a military theatre where he realized he would not be able to function properly. It would have been better to listen to someone so highly trained to recognize his own feelings and limits.
I agree that simple self-serving math for the military would argue for using Major Dr Hasan’s talent and training elsewhere within the military or letting him pay back monies owed.
I know a man who was moved half way around the world at the expense of his company and received considerable monetary benefits to work overseas because there was an emergency staffing problem and he had worked well there before. Unfortunately his new role was exactly contrary to his skills, talents, and personality. He had a depression, maxed out his vacation time when he was most needed, was on sick leave, and functioning at half abilities for a number of months until his prozac kicked in fully and the company wisely moved him into a position he was suited to, and moved someone else into the one he was originally transferred for. The cost was nothing to do the switch, or maybe and hour’s worth of changing offices time. Much more sane solution that what the army did for Major Hasan. B
I have had Arab Muslims tell me that after reading about Major Hasan they believe he was deliberately pushed to the breaking point by anti-Islamic elements in the military some of whom have been happy to give on air interviews of their experiences studying or working with him. I would prefer to believe it is not true, but I know enough about (bad) organizational psychology to know it is plausible.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Bismillaah
So Americans should give in to domestic terrorism?
Please, you’re not fooling anyone with that comment. The only reason you are even calling that incident terrorism is because he is Muslim. How very anti-Semitic of you.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
It’s plausible, but far from proved. I’m sure he heard a lot of anti-Muslim/anti-Arab things from people wounded or maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan (though of course Afghanistan isn’t Arab). But hearing unpleasant things is certainly part of the job of a psychiatrist. Getting out noxious feelings is part of healing, both physically and psychologically.
Added pressure on Maj. Hasan? Certainly. But I do doubt that it was directed at him personally.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Well, it’s an active question whether his acts were ‘terrorism’ now, isn’t it? Further, even assuming that his acts were, they would not have happened had his warnings been taken seriously.
I suppose you could call that “giving in to blackmail in the face of possible terrorism,” but that’s getting tenuous to the point of the ridiculous, I think.
The guy was clearly unhappy, was clearly sending up flares about himself. Those were ignored.
Let’s assume, though, that Hasan was a terrorist, for the sake of argument. There still remains an enormous burden on the US military to show how it did not screw up and get its priorities very, very wrong. I don’t think it can show that.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Maybe there is too much philosophizing here. Maybe it is a case of things going wrong without political, ideological or religious backgrounds.
Maybe this psygiatrist just wasn’t up to the job, whatever his religion. His religion played a role, but only incidentally. I have my doubts anyway about the people who choose Psycology; I have know quite a few psycology students in my student days. The only one whom I considered intelligent decided three years into the study it wasn’t for her.
Anyway, it could just be that this bloke could not deal with the pressures of his work, the fact that the current wars are against ”islamic” people, (although you can make a case that the taliban are flaunting Islam) and a disappointment about his life.
If he got out he might still not have been happy and have other problems.
So he send up some flags, but the high brass didn´t pay it much attention. It may be they get stuff like this all the time.
And then the major went on a rampage…
Which shows how much he melted into American culture: going out and shooting all and sundry seems to me to be a typical American custom.
(it seems to happen mostly in America)
Perhaps this is all it was: an american bloke with mental problems going berserk and nobody cought the signs in time. As has happened before.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
testing 123
just lost my last post
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Anyhoo check it\\
SORRY John I keep laughing about the staring at goats post. Sorry still laughing.
Hi Aafke! I agree with you on the psychiatrist bit not the crazy American bit. lol I am getting tired of hearing about us all going postal. It comes handy perhaps in times when I need to say, “Don’t make me go postal on yo Punk A–” Other than that Quit it guys! We are not crazy postal shooters!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
John–I agree. I see more math here than philosophy; and, whatever way the army interprets it, they are going to have difficulty explaining how they let whatever get this far.
Psychology and psychiatry overlap but are distinct. Many students take a BA/BSc in psychology as a preparation for something else, or stop at that level because they aren’t graduate school material, and it requires a Masters or, in North America. a PhD to do clinic, let alone research.
Psychiatrists are of course MDs, so back to the math–a much greater $$$$$ investment in Major Hasan’s training than if he had been a psychologist. Even if he were incompetent or suffering secondary traumatic stress (both unlikely given what we know of his promotion, and assignments, and the current immense focus on PTSD in the US military), the Army would have to explain why they saw him as fit for battlefield duty.
Brief psychotic episodes can come on with there being no previous signs of illness, because there was no previous illness, and can resolve fully, most often with no recurrence, although there are some who go on to chronic psychotic illness.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
John–just saw your comment #13. The concern was not so much what he would have heard from patients but the attitudes of co-workers and colleagues. It is not a theory I ascribe to although there are studies showing that the most toxic workplaces are in the “caring professions” including medicine. I haven’t heard anything that disproves the theory that seems most plausible to me–he really, really didn’t think he could be a battlefield psychiatrist in a war with a high civilian casualty rate in a Muslim country. It is a shame no one listened attentively enough.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
I haven’t seen anything that specified co-workers; I may have missed it. My assumption was that he’d be hearing less than flattering things coming from those wounded in action. If it was co-workers, then I’d like to see how their remarks are differentiated from the ‘black banter’ that rules in medical environments. Perhaps they truly were racist, but perhaps that’s how Hasan interpreted them, correctly or not.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Some of the people interviewed on CNN who had worked or studied with him (in the MPH program) were very preoccupied with the presentation he gave and that I linked here, and with his research. They thought it very suspicion, off topic, etc, had reported him to his superiors over it, etc No one, including the FBI has found any negatives in his presentations, or his research work. To me it smacked more of the kind of targetting that can happen in competitive classroom and professional environments, especially in conformist professions, which is very different than the dark humour of too many nights on call, or the stress of the ER etc. This is the type of toxic behaviour that is found to be prevalent in medicine, nursing, academia, and among the clergy.
On the other hand. just as all psychiatrists learn real and true information from patients, even quite sick ones, Major Hassan learned about the realities of civilian casualties, and how the war was being conducted on the ground, and that was the part 9r what made him feel he could not participate.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
If the FBI didn’t find anything wrong with is presentation, then they are wack. K Can you provide a citation of that?
Also, if people see something wrong whether their individual perception (right or wrong) they should report it. I wouldn’t care if anyone reported me for example cause I am an open book. Look through my files and life, have nothing to hide. AND I wouldn’t be communicating with Al-Q unless I was one of them or the FBI!!!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
The FBI didn’t say anything about his presentation, but rather about his communications with Sheikh Aulaqi in Yemen. Academic researchers–and journalists, of course–do communicate with Al-Qaeda members. Some have even interviewed bin Laden, though admittedly before 9/11.
As I’ve said earlier, the bullet points of his presentation don’t really tell us much, other than the topics he was addressing. I could use those same points to be threatening or benign. It all depends on the words I use to stitch them together.
I’m willing to give a level of credence to how those attending the presentation received it, but not to the level of absolute certainty. I think the fact that it was, in the view of many, off-topic would immediately cause confusion about his intent.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
I’ve not seen anything–but would welcome links–that addressed Hasan’s being told about civilian casualties from returning soldiers. I think there’s likely enough in the media to fill that cup, though.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky, nice to see you again!
Chiara, don’t make cheap jabs at my friend, she is oficially genius level and also a member of MENSA. Although she doesn’t give that high points either. Too easy to get in. I qualify too but am not interested. She finished the degree with ease. She just came to the conclusion that it was flawed and has become a writer instead.
The other students I knew personally were not too clever in my opinion, and the ones with the biggest mouths got the most responsible jobs.
No I’m still of the opinion this guy just flipped. Psyciatrists are not free of that, combine that with some salafi Islamic infuence and it flipped his mind completely.
The fundamentalist Muslims just use his name and exploits to claim him one of theirs and claim the ”victory” as theirs. Cheap.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
I’m sure there are a couple of other reasons one may be contacting Al-Q but at their own risk I suppose. Guilt by association hahahah.
I will give a brief on what I instantly saw wrong with the presentation. 1. Felt (yes felt I am a feeler lol) that he (Hassan) didn’t author it because of it just being mostly bullet points then a conclusion at the end this proves it is someone who can’t argue a point well. Hell maybe it was sent via an email attachment from Yemen. 2. It got into abbrogation which means that it was shown to Muslim to Muslim first (could be wrong but got that vibe). 3. The dawa part…Giving them a chance to convert to Islam to rid the guilt of what was to come (got the vibe big time while reading) 4. It was a very threatening powerpoint… 5. It could have been a thousand different ways if Hassan’s goal was to accomplish or persuade…I felt this was a warning and it was heed this warning…thus the dawa section and then this is what is to come. Could be wrong but that is what I was feeling
P.S. Always nice to see you Aafke!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Aafke–don’t take cheap jabs at my comment. Please read as written above:
“Many students take a BA/BSc in psychology as a preparation for something else, or stop at that level because they aren’t graduate school material,…”
In other words, many students who take a BA or BSc in psychology deliberately stop at that level to study something else, including in my experience of colleagues medicine, law, MBA, MPH, BEd (for teaching certification), neurosciences, MSW, MEd (Counselling option), BNSc/MNSc (nursing), MSc (bioethics),MFA (creative writing, drama), etc.
“…because they aren’t graduate school material…”
In other words, many highly intelligent people are not graduate material: they aren’t sufficiently interested in a subject to pursue it to that level, they hate research, they hate the uncertainty and slow pace of graduate research programs, they don’t want to be a clinician (in the case of psychology), and they flourish better in a work setting with professional development courses and advancement built in.
“Psychiatrists are of course MDs, so back to the math–a much greater $$$$$ investment in Major Hasan’s training than if he had been a psychologist.”
In other words, the issue of investment in Major Hasan and releasing from the army is a math question affected by the type of training he had.
There is no evidence that Major Hasan had any salifist leanings, and while anyone can “flip” including a psychiatrist, he seems to have done so in a very encapsulated manner–specifically against the deployment centre that was sending him overseas.
Sparky–the FBI reporting on the presentation was something I caught on a news cast, I shall try to find it and reference it here. I trust that by now they have recruited persons sufficiently well-trained to do this type of assessment, and on review after the shooting would be even more cautious. So far all I have seen of an incriminating nature is news casters trying to fill air time with shock and awe, and “experts” with no new information speculating on possibilities.
Of course, genuinely suspicious things should be reported, but this is also a tool used to unfairly target and tie up the time and energy of colleagues, competitors, and people of the “wrong ilk” ie people one doesn’t like: intelligent women, brown people, non-Christians, psychiatrists (in an MPH program they would be in a minority), etc. Some that I have witnessed include: false accusations of sexual impropriety with patients (a career ender), false accusations of health insurance fraud, false accusations of mental or physical illness, false accusations of incompetence. I emphasize false because thee examples are all real and were all thoroughly investigated and found to be false.
Just for you I went through Major Hasan’s power point presentation again and find his main content fit with his title and stated objectives, it is commensurate with speaking to a group that knows little about Islam, gives statistics and case examples as is required in such presentations, insists on the diversity of individual soldiers reactions to being in combat in a Muslim country, and summarizes and concludes appropriately, including a plausible recommendation. It seems to me more aimed at serving the purposes of the US military in handling Muslim soldiers and understanding the enemy than anything else.
John–yes, I didn’t have time to do the references when I left the original comment, but since people are interested I will do, and get back to you, on this thread.
In the meantime the topic is standard for MPH psychiatry style, which would and did strike as odd former classmates more interested in questions about contaminated drinking water, the clinical epidemiology of a specific illness, primary/ secondary/ tertiary preventive strategies of a specific illness, or resources distribution, or as one friend did: the best way to enforce compliance with TB regimen and how far to push the quarantine law in someone who tests positive but has no active illness. In an MPH class a psychiatrist would be in a minority and often a rarity. The topics in psychiatry in general are different than in standard medicine, and often strike non-psychiatrists as odd. I have taken and taught similar classes and I was the only shrink. One has to remember that many in medicine are suspicious of psychiatry in general, and MPH types often like to count nice concrete things, like parts per millilitre of fluoride in public water supplies and the % reduction of caries in the population of X place. And it is a good thing they do too. However, given Major Hasan’s specialty and role in the military (which would include fitness for combat and specific types of combat assessments, and discharge dispositions) his presentation would make excellent sense to me if I were sitting in on it.
I take the liberty of reprising part of a comment I left on an earlier Major Hasan thread:
“How about a case of employee on employer rage? Criminal in this case unless he is found to have been not responsible by reason of insanity at the time of the shooting. Excellent case for a forensic, not a military, psychiatrist, or a forensic psychiatrist with a military background.”
Off to get in my linking fix! LOL
November:14:2009 - 11:18
John PS–thanks for your comment on my related post on Tara’s blog and I did reply to you there:
http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2009/11/remembrance-and-family-heritage-in.html
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Fair is foul and foul is fair…
With that said, I wish to take your first example of someone getting ticked off with an intelligent woman. It is a Miss Smarty Pants that someone may get ticked off with.
Noun: smartypants ’smaa(r)-tee`pants
1. Someone being or trying to be irritatingly clever; a smart alec
- bright spark, smart-ass [N. Amer], smart-arse [Brit, Cdn], smarty, smartie
Or someone who needs to or FEELS the need to display their intelligence an annoying way. For example trying to make all other around them feel like they are hair brained for spelling mistakes etc. etc.
If I were getting paid, I would object to every point you made concerning the slides. Since I am not, I am going to watch T.V. Although I admit recently crossroads Arabia has been more interesting to me than any other entertainment on the telly.
I have found that people who put the most effort in coming across intellectual have the greatest insecurities and fears.
Tidbit: I was refused breakfast at a predominately black high school. I am a white skinned green eyed devil. People just need to get over the bull. Simply I went to the principal who I knew very well (happened to be black) who went and told the cafetaria lady (also black) to give me my breakfast. My crime…standing up for my white people who were being bullied by a rude black cafetaria lady. What I said to her, “I know all about you.” Apparently that seemed to drive her crazy for some reason despite the fact it was impossible to know all about her. I only felt her. What I did know was how rude she was to white people! There was security at the other end…I had thought about running away with my cereal but that didn’t seem plausible. I calmly handled the situation.
I appreciate you citing your source for the FBI finding nothing wrong with powerpoint.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky—alas Faculties of Medicine are so full of smarty pants that it is considered normal behaviour. Intelligent, quiet, and substantive are the most likely to draw negative attention, in men and more so in women. For the references see below.
John–Major Hasan–ROTC 1993-97, meds 1997-2001, psych training 2001-2009, first job out of training Fort Hood, promoted Major in May 2009–was on track for all timings; and therefore suffered no major mental health issues. The presentation in fact was one given in 2007 as s Senior Psychiatry Resident at rounds—even more standard fare in that light.
The FBI investigated him in Dec 2008 through early 2009 about emails and said that the emails were benign in light of his research and psychiatry interests. This rounds presentation would no doubt be part of what was considered his research production and most likely was reviewed along with other materials—or else they did a poor job of investigating. Given that the last 2 years of training were extra time beyond qualifying as a psychiatrist to do a research fellowship in Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry, no one seemed to have overly great concerns about his research topics or production.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010232219_apusforthoodshooting.html
“Officials said the content of those messages was “consistent with the subject matter of his research,” part of which involved post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from U.S. combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A law enforcement official said the communications consisted primarily of Hasan posing questions to the imam as a spiritual leader or adviser, and the imam did respond to at least some of those messages.
No formal investigation was ever opened based on the contacts, the officials said.”
As he presented his senior rounds on a topic that wasn’t a specific drug or diagnosis, his presentation was guaranteed to draw negative attention from many, especially in a conservative element like military psychiatry. Much less controversial topics which don’t follow the model “Is clonazapine safe for treatment of tobacco addiction?” or “Differential Diagnosis of Bipolar I and II in the Elderly” are routinely met with skepticism by some.
The other commentators I originally mentioned in my comments were talking about his MPH presentation, which sounds similar; and he could well have presented the same talk or one with minor variations, as it was part of a simultaneous MPH taken 2007-8. I heard them on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360, in the 2nd day after the shooting.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/06/acd.02.html
That is most likely where I also heard about the impact on him of the reports of his patients returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. Since there are unusually high and increasing numbers of homicides and suicides in the US military, it is likely he heard a lot of negatives about the war there, including what the military itself recognizes as collateral damage of counterinsurgency: increasing civilian casualties.
It seems there was little evidence of any serious impairment prior to the attack:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/12/acd.01.html
“Earlier this week, Hasan’s supervisor at Fort Hood was asked about reports of problems.
COLONEL KIMBERLY KESLING, DEPUTY COMMANDER OF CLINICAL SERVICES, DARNALL ARMY MEDICAL CENTER: His evaluation reports said that he had had some difficulties in his residency fitting into his residency. And, so, we worked very hard to integrate him into our practice and integrate him into our organization. And he — he adapted very well and was doing a really good job for us.”
November:14:2009 - 11:18
As a security consultant who has worked for governments in the past, i would say of course yes Maj. Hasan flipped and did not handle his situation correctly. But at the same time, the Recruitment and Training standards of the Army need to have a make over for sure.
Generally speaking the Recruitment Process (at least for officers) needs to weed out cases like Maj. Hasan who may have a very low tolerance for the regular military. An officer needs to have a better level of military IQ.
And secondly the Training should have inculcated in him the qualities of esprit de corps and leadership qualities. Looks like the Army paid more attention on training a psychiatrist then training an officer. If the Army had paid enough attention to training Maj. Hasan better as an officer, such an out come wouldn’t have come up.
Usually the Non combatant corps such Medical, Engineering, etc. often do not synchronize their doctrine with regards to the overall Combatant nature of the Army. At the end of the day the Army is a fighting unit; this is some how forgotten by the non-combatant units. Hence the blame would also be on the Senior Commanders of the Medical corps as well.
And secondly though the media has been saying that “no one wanted to question his credentials because of political correctness” I really don’t buy that. I am not aware of US Military but at least as per the Standard Operating Procedure with regards to pre-deployment screening followed by other countries, Maj. Hasan should have been again investigated by the Army Intelligence or the Internal Security Corp.
A related case shows that the Service’s Intelligence is not up to the mark with regards to Internal Security. This is the case of Paul R. Hall who passed on sensitive information to Taliban via two UK based terrorism suspects. Now even this leak was only identified when these two contacts for Paul were arrested in London and the FBI then took up the case. This case itself illustrated that the Intelligence Services are not capable of their Internal Security or needs serious procedural makeover.
However the British seem to have avoided many such problems and in fact have been effectively using their Muslim recruits. In Feb 2007, Two British Muslim Soldiers acted as a bait to lure some extremists to kill them and these extremists were arrested as well. Check it out at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-433208/Police-praise-Muslim-soldiers-acted-bait-beheading-gang.html
Now that’s some thing the Right wing media needs to look at.
And in a different sphere i would really like to say that right wingers from all their rant are only making a bad situation worse. Pointing out a counter example from India, India has had many Muslims who had fought on all the 3 major wars and other skirmishes with Pakistan. In fact many Muslim soldiers have been decorated for their valour including NCO Abdul Hamid who died fighting against Pakistan for India and was decorated the highest Gallantry award ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Hamid_(soldier) )
I have discussed this issue more fully on Chiara’s post at Tara’s Blog http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2009/11/remembrance-and-family-heritage-in.html
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Well to put in a nutshell…If they had seen what I had seen (particularly in the pp you linked) then surely this could have been avoided. But thank you for your efforts. It makes it more interesting.
Oops one more thing…the word “military officials” does not amount to FBI. You had said the FBI found nothing wrong with his powerpoint. The article linked said military officials found nothing wrong with email communications. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010232219_apusforthoodshooting.html
I thought FBI was a separate entity?
Let me plant doubt. There are many who pose that officials let 911 happen. Could it be that there are officials who let this happen too?
AND OMG I was joking when I had said that Al-Q had probably sent Maj. Hassan the pp but it now seems according to this article it was likely (or at least a probability).
This is getting freakier!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Aristole’s Challenge:
“Anyone can become angry-that is easy. But to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way-that is not easy.”
About Smarty Pants, I find Daniel Goleman author of “Emotional Intelligence: Working with Emotional Intelligence” has some useful information about leveraging diversity.
People with this competence
- Respect and relate well to people from VARIED BACKGROUNDS
- Understand diverse worldviews and are sensitive to group differences
- See diversity as opportunity, creating an environment where diverse people can thrive
- Challenge bias and intolerance
Smart people don’t always have emotional intelligence. I am impressed with people’s intelligence, but intelligence alone doesn’t impress me at all.
To sum it up about the major
“Out of control emotions can make smart people stupid” – Daniel Goleman
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky–it seems clear to me in the article that the FBI did an original assessment and is now reviewing:
“After the shooting, the FBI is doing a new assessment – of its own conduct.
The Army psychiatrist is believed to have acted alone despite repeated communications – intercepted by authorities – with a radical imam overseas, U.S. officials said Monday. The FBI will conduct an internal review to see whether it mishandled early information about the man accused in the bloody rampage that killed 13 people and wounded 29.”
“FBI Director Robert Mueller ordered the inquiry into the bureau’s handling of the case, including its response to potentially worrisome information gathered about Hasan beginning in December 2008 and continuing into early this year.
“Based on all the investigations since the attack, the investigators said they have no evidence that Hasan had help or outside orders in the shootings.”
I agree that IQ and EQ are distinct, and more distinct in some persons than in others. Anyone who can graduate from a psychiatry residency has a reasonably high EQ–even in the most biological, pharmacological of programs–or can fake it well enough to function decently in society. EQ doesn’t prevent psychosis though.
Great Aristotle quote, thanks! All the times we’ve gone over Aristotle, The Nicomachean Ethics, and none of the EQ-challenged PhD’s in philosophy of bioethics thought to pull that one out. It is going straight into my professional notes! Continentalist vs Anglo-Analytic philosophers–go team! Thanks again!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Abu Abdullah–thanks for your knowledgeable contributions here and on Tara’s blog. The military security aspect of course is crucial, but fewer of us have the experience to address it in an informed manner. You might be interested in the opinion of Brian Jenkins, Rand Expert on Terrorism, as interviewed by John Roberts on CNN’s American Morning. After, stating the professional caveat that all the information is not in, he described the situation as he has assessed it, based on the information available, of an employee “going postal”, a lone gunman with a personal grievance that has led him to an internal evolution, that characteristically is not manifested externally, ie no clues to pick up, and is not necessarily a long term one. In any event, he felt that any subtle signs would more likely be picked up in the regular forces as opposed to the medical branch, particularly as a psychiatrist in a hospital setting. With much prompting from John Roberts (no longer JD Roberts of his music video vj start in Canada) he finally used the terms inner radicalization, and “going postal” in this case being in his mind “going jihad”.
Embedded video from CNN Video
In keeping with Sparky’s comment on EQ, psychiatry departments deliberately function with higher EQ’s or EQ aspirations, and that is one of the reasons the more emotionally rigid of the medical specialities revile psychiatry. In fact if he had been a surgeon his attitudes and research projects would have drawn much more negative attention from within his department. This is the kind of EQ stuff with patients that other medical specialities refer to psychiatry for consultation.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Chiara your words in post 21:
“No one, including the FBI has found any negatives in his presentations, or his research work. To me it smacked more of the kind of targetting that can happen in competitive classroom and professional environments, especially in conformist professions, which is very different than the dark humour of too many nights on call, or the stress of the ER etc. This is the type of toxic behaviour that is found to be prevalent in medicine, nursing, academia, and among the clergy.”
Nothing specifically was mentioned of the FBI finding nothing wrong with his pp. You said “negatives”. What does that mean? Please explain if you don’t mind and thanks.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Maybe the article had forgotten to add -ing to the end of conduct. hahahaha
How thorough were such assessments done by terrorism investigators? Also, are such people part of the FBI or department of homeland security?
Robert Mueller is still around. OMG grosssss
November:14:2009 - 11:18
“No FBI chief has ever lasted the full ten-year term. People who know Mueller say he will. “He’s genetically coded to do this,” says Rawls. As to what Mueller will do on September 5, 2011, when he leaves office, there’s only one answer. “I think he’d be most happy going back to DC and trying homicide cases,” jokes John Pistole.
Mueller doesn’t joke. Asked about his plans for the future, he points down Pennsylvania Avenue toward Judiciary Square and the DC Courthouse: “Homicide!””
Genetically coded hmmmm
For more info about this genetically coded individual http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/9320.html
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky– as I said above, if the FBI matched his emails to his research and found no security concerns they must have gone through his research, which at the level of a senior resident in psychiatry would have produced this presentation and MAYBE a publication, so unless they just looked at a title or a topic I would assume they went through the powerpoint presentation as that is often the only record of a grand rounds, rounds, or seminar presentation that exists in this type of setting. He might also have had research notes. Hopefully someone was on the ball enough to do this, but I guess that is what the FBI is reviewing for. Also this presentation was specifically reviewed by his superiors, and he was given the usually elite opportunity to do a 2-yr fellowship in the same field, ie beyond his final year of psychiatry training, so I am reasonably certain there was no sense it was a propaganda or psy ops manoeuvre on his part. It seems to me to read as being onside with the US and helping them understand the enemy better, and the strains on Muslim American soldiers, as well as the background for the unfortunate incidents that had occurred to date. As I said, since I have attended, given, and helped students prepare these types of presentations I really cannot see anything in it but standard fare, on a topic relevant to his work. For all we know his supervisers told him to do this topic, which is highly plausible.
My understanding is that separately the FBI, the military, and his medical supervisers were reviewing this from Dec 2008-about March 2009, and of course now everyone including DHS is all over it.
“Ft. Hood a ‘terrorist attack’ 5:02″
November:14:2009 - 11:18
“Ft. Hood a ‘terrorist attack’ 5:02? is the title of the video I tried to link in my comment #35 above. CNN Video takes you to its most recent one and the relevant one is farther down the page, with a picture of John Roberts talking to Brian Jenkins.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
In my undergraduate studies, I took the opportunity to do a large portion on Islamic topics. I always considered my audience. If I was given the task that the major was, and turned in that powerpoint I would have failed miserably. If I get time, I will go into specifically what I think is wrong with it.
Ah and concerning only reading a title…quite a possibility. The majority of the pp was quotes from the Quran. All he needed to do was have a Quran beside him.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
As has been stated, particularly by John, we don’t know the rest of his explication around these slides. He would have been evaluated on the whole presentation, not the slide content only. This is standard for the level he is presenting at, and for this particular audience. Medicine is a far more oral/aural culture than undergraduate studies.
The concern was that perhaps the FBI read only the title; but, I would hope by 2008-9 they were more competent on these topics than that.
He may have had a Quran beside him, or passed one around (though the latter is unlikely). That would be a side point on this topic. His main issue is what the US military needs to know about Islam and Muslims to understand their adversary, their own Muslim soldiers, and to prevent “friendly fire”, “fragging”, or other “unfortunate incidents” within the ranks.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Despite the fact that I have mounds of respect for John, and I know he is intelligent etc. etc. I am allowed to disagree with him. As long as I respectfully disagree, I think I am welcome at his blog. He is not a God nor is any other person who has an opinion, belief or perspective.
That aside. I did not mean he (major) had the Quran beside him literally. I meant that his pp was mainly quotes from the Quran which means his research was the Quran and it’s literally interpretation without breaking it down into tasfeer. Btw, I am familiar with graduate studies too. Although I don’t have a Ph D my husband advised me that in the business world that would only be a disadvantage esp. in Saudi because Smarty Pants are not welcome in the business world unless they are professors at a uni.
I believe aural is important anywhere in any communication exchange. I think if the pp was read with emphasis that would only make it more threatening. I might not have a PhD but I do know what research is and the different types what was in his pp was NOT RESEARCH. I am on vacation these days. Perhaps I will look at his pp from the perspective of a teacher as if I were grading it.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Woe, wait a minute I gotta run to the grocery store. However, I did catch a few things in your speech. Do you think that the US military looks upon Muslim soldiers as adversaries?
Also, something in the Quran that talks about fighting the disbelievers could be in reference to what was going on at the time and not to be taken as a golden rule. Hence, that is where tafseer comes in. I have read the tasfeer to make sense of what the Quran says. Because if I took it literally that would be a problem.
I disagree about getting rid of all the hadith only the ones that are not beneficial!
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky–so many sparks flying and against things I never said. Of course, you may disagree with John. He is most agreeably respectful, of those who disagree with him, and even those who are disagreeable (not yourself, of course).
I do understand what you meant about the Quranic basis of the presentation, though in these types of presentations having a Quran present might get him bonus points for audio-visual aids.
Indeed, research comes in many forms, and this would be part of his research production even if it involves primarily background information, some case examples and drawing conclusions, with a final recommendation. He would have submitted separately article style reports on his research, which was no doubt broader than this.
I, for one, wouldn’t as a teacher grade a powerpoint presentation on the slides alone, but have fun.
I don’t recall making a speech, but it would be helpful if before commenting you read more carefully–without of course starving your family. I made a distinction, as did Major Hasan, between enemy soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Muslims in the American forces.
Some Phds in business do well in the business world but they often have completed a PhD for pleasure later in life. My hub stopped before completing a doctoral thesis because he wanted to work in the business world not the academic one, although he has done some uni mentoring since.
Most PhDs are not smarty pants types, though some are–usually the ones who have more problem with substantive work but want the title of Dr, or the ones stuck in adolescence. Most bright children/teens learn the social disadvantages of being a smarty pants and stop that behaviour early, if they ever had it.
Looking forward to whatever opus you care to prepare on Major Hasan’s powerpoint slides.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Cheap shots is what people do when they are losing
Your words: “His main issue is what the US military needs to know about Islam and Muslims to understand their adversary, their own Muslim soldiers, and to prevent “friendly fire”, “fragging”, or other “unfortunate incidents” within the ranks.”
You still insist on understanding things literally. Oh gee those literalists! What to do?
You seem awefully defensive of his research especially his pp. Did you contribute to it or something?
November:14:2009 - 11:18
, ,
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November:14:2009 - 11:18
Also, if the foolish military uses psychiatrists like you and major Hassan (you seem to compare yourself to him a lot) then it is no wonder returning soldiers commit suicide.
P.S. I never intended to do anything to the powerpoint HAH LOL
November:14:2009 - 11:18
“His main issue is what the US military needs to know about Islam and Muslims to understand their adversary, their own Muslim soldiers, and to prevent “friendly fire”, “fragging”, or other “unfortunate incidents” within the ranks.”
Indeed, my meaning seems clear enough, especially in context, but “to understand their adversary and their own Muslim soldiers,and to prevent” would have been clearer.
I never expected you to write anything substantive on the powerpoint presentation; and, it seems you are confusing the level of commentary on John’s blog with that elsewhere.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
K Chiara take the last word as it seems you need it.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
This post itself illustrates how this current episode of Maj Hassan has been taken out of context by hate mongers.
Often the hate mongers interestingly are only those who like to talk much (in this case hog this post by many senseless comments) and have no credentials, proofs, or evidence to back their claims.
And the ones who are the actual professionals, Doctors, Diplomats, Security Experts are just totally ignored by these hate mongers.
Chiara and John you both have enlightened us with your expert advice/opinions as a Psychiatrist and a Diplomat with international experience respectively which counts more than some other “mumbo jumbo” Tom, Dick or Harry from the street corner, Thank you and keep up the good work.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
I guess the Tom Dick and Harry don’t count?
Anyhow, Abu Abdullah most people in Saudi are pretty much convinced this was all staged (FAKE) and I am starting to believe that might be true.
Proof???
According to people’s beliefs on this subject many believe that going psychotic is pretty much normal I just ask as a normal Tom, Dick and Harry that if anyone here plans on being psychotic especially any psychiatrists that they would give ample warnings or signals.
I wonder how many of you have actually lived in Islamic countries, under Islamic rule completely isolated from “Western” life for any extended periods of time. Apparently there is this guilt complext that ends up creeping up on Arabs who haven’t. So whatever, just make your hijra and keep your mouths shut.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky–comment #50, is rather old hat in the blogosphere; and, regarding comment #52, brief psychotic episode, and brief reactive psychosis are bonafide diagnoses (DSM-IV) and have a French corollary bouffée délirante, to describe the sudden onset, often under extreme stress, that results in a psychotic break with reality but resolves completely and often spontaneously (ie without medication), and lasts only a day or as much as a month. Most often there are no indications that the person is someone who would have or is having a psychotic break prior to its sudden manifestation. That is totally consistent with one plausible theory of Major Hasan’s behaviour.
Mini-psychotic episodes happen to Borderline Personality Disorders and less often to Histrionic Personality Disorders, and are slightly different for that reason, ie they are clearly in the context of a personality disorder.
Abu Abdullah–thanks for your comment, and for previously sharing your security expertise. I assume that as you live in Riyadh you are aware of life under Islamic rule! LOL
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Also, I try to stop what I am typing here but I can’t I am just gentically coded to do this.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Under Islamic rule LOL…I am sure the Saudis who might be reading this don’t find it as funny as you do Chiara. I AMM AMERICAAAN; you are canadian. I try to take into consideration your comments here as the little man. I was interested to learn that the US shares its “intelligence” with a couple of countries and CANADA is NOT ONE OF THEM.
Not surprised!
ASS UME as much as you want cause you don’t know Jack. I know how adverse you are to the ghetto.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Today ABC broke the news about Maj. Hassan’s extensive contacts with Imam Awlaki. Well this is developing story as of now and much needs to be answered, but check the news article here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/major-hasans-mail-wait-join-afterlife/story?id=9130339
Now and i wouldn’t buy it at face value, would instead prefer to wait and watch more of it. And in the second page of the news story
“Some members of Congress have raised questions about the military’s counter-intelligence unit, based at Fort Meade, and Gates said every question will be answered.”
BTW Chiara, I do believe that this case was a result of a many lapses at the Intelligence Gathering, recruitment, training and personality assessment by the Army.
As I said some days back (nov 14) in this same post
This case itself illustrated that the Intelligence Services are not capable of their Internal Security or needs serious procedural makeover.
I am not a pundit in US Military organization, but based on what i know of military organization, the US Army needs to firmly establish or improve its “Internal Security Group” at the Divisional level with direct oversight by the the Director General of Military Intelligence. However to retain the fluidity of the decisions it shouldn’t tilt toward the way Voenkam- Military Commisars of the Soviets.
November:14:2009 - 11:18
Sparky–I trust Saudi readers are astute enough to realize that the LOL was about the idea that Abu Abdullah, who does live in Riyadh, certainly does know what it is like to live under Islamic rule or at least Sharia law, applied not only to civil or family matters, but to criminal law as well. The rest of your comment is puerile at best.
Abu Abdullah–Thanks for sharing this news. I agree that further investigation is necessary, and time will give more information on the case. I am sure that there will be more interesting news and findings, and more people’s work will come under scrutiny. Unfortunately, I always remember all the eyewitness reports of the clothing and behaviour of the terrorist suspect shot dead in London, and who turned out to be an innocent Brazilian worker, who wasn’t wearing suspicious clothing for summer, didn’t run from the authorities, didn’t jump a turnstile, etc. I am sure Major Hasan is the shooter, and also the shot (he now suffers paralysis from the “nipple line” down), but beyond that little is certain, even the supposed “Allahu Akbar” so many think they heard, just as so many thought they saw a Middle Eastern man running and jumping turnstiles in a winter jacket covering a suicide vest.
Thanks again for the article.