I’m taking the liberty of republishing this opinion piece by Tariq Al-Maeena, from Arab News. I couldn’t say it better, so I’m allowing him to say it…
Islam is not about fundamentalism
Tariq A. Al-Maeena | talmaeena@aol.comShortly after the Fort Hood shootings in which the lives of 13 US Army personnel were senselessly wasted by a killing rampage by one of their own, a US radio commentator called me up for my take as an Arab and a Muslim on the incident.
Gary specifically wanted to know if there was any hint of sympathy in the Kingdom for the actions of Maj. Nidal Hasan, the 39-year-old military psychiatrist responsible for the carnage that included at least 31 injured at the military base in central Texas.
My response was immediate. This was a dastardly act by a psychopath, a person who apparently flipped and let loose. “But he shouted Allah-o- Akbar (God is Great) before he started firing,” interjected Gary, the implication being that Islam was somewhat connected to the event.
“Whether he did that, Gary, or recited the whole Qur’an or a thousand Hail Mary’s before the shooting spree does not absolve him of the crime in the eyes of God, and there would be no paradise waiting in the hereafter. This was an indiscriminate act of killing, and one made more bizarre by his turning his gun on his own colleagues. Islam clearly forbids the destruction of innocent lives.
“Rest assured Gary, that we are just as shocked and outraged at these events. Speaking as a Muslim, I can tell you he is not one of our own and to tie Islam to such a horrific act is in itself an offense. Pick up a newspaper today and you’ll read of acts of violence just about anywhere in the world. Whether they are committed by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists or whatever, they are still acts of crime. And inexcusable at that, regardless of whatever distorted ideology they chose to follow.”
“But Tariq, initial reports coming out point to his having some connections to a radical imam with connections to Al-Qaeda back in D.C.”
“Gary, Al-Qaeda is not an Islamic organization. Al-Qaeda has indiscriminately killed or injured many, including Muslims I might add. They are nothing short of being terrorists, full stop! Their ideology is fueled more by the greed for power than any religious affiliation. Granted, the majority of them seem to recite some holy verses before setting off on their murderous activities, but this in no way should cast a shadow on a religion that promotes peace and tolerance.
“The Kingdom itself has not escaped unscathed against such acts of terrorism. Al-Qaeda has gunned down scores of Muslims, be they security officers or civilians. Where does Islam factor into all of this?
“And as for fundamentalism, we are well aware of the dangers they pose to society in general. The Kingdom is actively promoting interfaith dialogues around the world to lessen the misunderstandings that have taken off in recent times. This is not for cosmetic purposes, but for enhancing understanding between various faiths. At home, the authorities vigilantly ferret out those with suspected extremist ideologies and lock them up. There is hardly any sympathy or tolerance. The “hellfire and brimstone” variety of preachers that could also be found practicing in the backwoods of Louisiana under different faiths are being reprogrammed or else face prison sentences.
“And while it’s still a little early to tell whether this major was psychologically or religiously motivated, let me honestly say that I doubt there is a squad of cheerleaders in the Kingdom rah rahhing him up.”
“And Gary, a little bit of advice before we sign off. Read up a little more on Islam to have a better perspective on this great religion. Only then you will understand that what this major did had very little to do with the religion as we know and practice it. Islam is not about fundamentalism.”
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November:14:2009 - 11:59
I think you are right John…he said it well. I think that there is an underlying problem here that tends to propagate this idea that Islam is Fundamentalism. A large majority of non Muslims probably know little about what the religion stands for or says. I, myself, am learning slowly because I am making an effort to read and try to learn more and weed out the negative pieces that seem to a non Muslim mind to be so tightly woven together with the religion. The reason I started is I couldn’t understand why one of the world’s Great Faiths seemed to all of a sudden be about violence and killing and subjugation. When the heck did that happen??? When I was a kid in the 60′s and a young adult in the mid-late 70′s I don’t remember all this turmoil…so that is why I started on a journey. But most probably won’t. And what they see is the result of people(terrorists) who have taken the religion and have twisted it to interpret it for violent purposes not only against non Muslims but Muslims as well. They don’t see the peaceful Muslims around them and even when they do they don’t interact. Non Muslims become afraid and ever more suspicious(not all but a lot) and Muslims I am sure feel an increased sense of isolation from the mainstream.
I know it sounds hokey but what Islam needs IMO is a public relations campaign of sorts. Mohamad K. Yusuff made this suggestion to CAIR and I thought it was very intelligent. They need to do a better job of getting out the word about what Islam is. They need to have a grassroots strategy to reach out to their neighbors in cities across America to help them realize they are Americans just as we are, they have kids in school just as we do, they work in businesses side by side with us and have the same hopes and desires for their lives and families as we do. In a way, they need to demystify Islam. The terrorists have done a very good job of making it seem scary and radical which of course in it’s true form it is not. And I think on some gut level most non Muslims know that, but they really don’t know what Islam believes so there may be little flickers of doubt. To me that is one of the most successful things the terrorists have done…they have driven a huge wedge between Muslims and non in terms of trust. And that is a shame because really the goals of Muslims and non should NOT be against each other but as a united force against terrorism.
I don’t purport to have the answer to how to do this grassroots movement. It would have to be done in such a way as to not seem like proselytizing as that would turn people off and keep them from hearing the message. And for non Muslims they MUST make an effort to reach out across the aisle and shake the hand that is extended to them and make an effort to understand their neighbors. Otherwise the terrorists have won.
November:14:2009 - 12:30
I basically agree. A problem with ‘doing PR’ for Islam, though, is that 100 days’ worth of effort can be undone by a 10-minute shooting spree. A bomb on a subway train or a bus will counter thousands of Muslims saying, ‘We’re not about violence.’ That isn’t because people are holding a particular animus against Islam, but human nature. It’s also what feeds contemporary media reporting on anything: “If it bleeds, it leads.”
November:14:2009 - 15:09
I am reading the book “Inside the Kingdom” by Robert Lacey. It has only recently come out…I am not finished…perhaps 1/2 done. It seems to me that just by what Mr. Lacey and others have written about the very strict/fundamental Wahabbi Islam that was exported out of Saudi Arabia,full of hatred toward the “infidels” and printed in the Korans coming from there this is almost like a case of the chickens coming home to roost. Perhaps if this more drastic Islam had not been propagated and given a chance to foment then KSA might not be facing terrorism on it’s own borders now.
Or is that simplifying it too much?
November:14:2009 - 17:33
No, you’re very much on target. The worst part (for Saudis) is that much of this happened through governmental inattention. It put too much faith in the religious establishment to do right and it did not.
November:14:2009 - 21:56
Regardless of what labels one’s attaches to certain things…the truth is that there is Quranic scripture to back up certain actions (not the major’s per say) and assuming that what was posted earlier really were the major’s slides (there were a few typos/spelling mistakes); it is going to take a lot more than a PR campaign to prove to people otherwise, Muslim and Non Muslim included.
A lot of what was said or at least bullet pointed in those slides is what I learned living in the KSA. Perhaps I am on the wrong street corner…perhaps not.
People may not like what I have to say, but it is only this direct confronting and dealing with it approach that it can be solved. Perhaps a powerpoint slide can be made in which it details all the unIslamic approaches to following scripture.
Muslims need to be educated first before any campaign to reach Non-Muslims.
November:14:2009 - 22:21
Let’s say Al-Q had a role (I have no idea) in this I am guessing their intent was to make Americans feel even more paranoid and fearful in places that are supposed to feel most secure.
My advice is to just Live your Life; Be Happy and just drop F-bombs on Al-Q and tell them to get a life.
November:14:2009 - 23:05
Darn it Sparky, you stole my words (and packaged them much better than I could have, would have). Of course, I would have taken it farther, but why try poor John’s patience…
Oby, I like your question. What happened in the 70s and after? I have given it some thought. Many things: 1. massive Muslim immigration to West, 2. new technologies (jets, cheap airfare, satellite TV, Internet), 3. US support of Muslim regimes and jihadis (against USSR) and end of Cold War, 4. Welfare state amplified, 5. Post-Modernism takes over Universities and media in West, bringing multicultutalism and political correctness, 6. End of traditional morality in US and Europe (family, homosexuality, judeo-Christian traditions, etc…), 7. frustration of Muslims with lack of progress and respect in Islamic societies, 8. A renewed commitment to spread Fundamanetalist Islam using oil wealth.
All of these have combined to give us the mess we are in now. If it had been just one or two of these, things would not be so severe as we see them now. What we see is the Islam of Mohammad, alive and well, right out of the 7th century. We see the West with no sense of direction and purpose.
I am not religious and haven’t been to church in years. My father, still alive and almost 90, says it is just the lord putting everything into place for the final attack on Israel (book of Revelations) and the end of days. Nice thought, hummm. I have always been very cynical about human nature and pessimistic about our human race, but my feeling is that we are guided by our lessor instints (greed, desires, ambition), not a divine hand). Is my Dad wrong? Am I wrong? Are we both wrong? Don’t know.
And one last thing. Islam doesn’t need PR; it needs sharp, informed critism. We have seen the PR thing being done for a decade and it hasn’t worked. Much to the contrary, Islam has become more violent, against Muslims and non-Muslims.
Kactuz
PS: Oby, speaking of chickens coming home… Do you know what happened 30 years ago this month? I haven’t seen anything in the papers about it. Well, in my opinion, the change you talk about begins with that event.
November:14:2009 - 23:55
John, I think it was worse than government inattention, and an assumption that the religious authorities would do “right”. They handed over education to these wingnuts. And they handed over their population to be policed by them. And they very clearly lived outside the conditions they allowed on their people.
Now I don’t think it is hopeless, and they are trying to change- but they are the masters of “eventually” and even under ideal conditions its hard to turn something like this around when it has the momentum it does.
And while I agree with Tariq to a certain degree, I don’t think he addresses the fact that this violent fundamentalism DOES have its root in Islam, even if it is a twisted interpretation of it. As long as the members of these movements are all shouting Allahu Ahkbar, they’re ours whether we like it or not (unless it really becomes a scattering of random crazies- which it is not). And not facing that won’t help us end it. They kill more Muslims than anyone else- and they are killing the reputation of our faith as well. It should be at least as important to us as protesting cartoons.
November:14:2009 - 23:57
Jay, I think you’ve pretty much touched all the bases.
Among the things that happened 30 years ago this month, the US Embassy in Tehran was seized, starting a 444-day captivity for a group of Americans. It happened on my fourth day as a Foreign Service Officer, just starting training.
The seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca took place, 30 years ago on the 20th.
In December, we’ll note the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
Pretty busy, pretty crappy year, all in all…
[Excepting the fact that I was married 30 years ago, too!]
November:15:2009 - 07:30
Sandy, that’s all true. Thirty years ago, when the Grand Mosque in Mecca was taken over, the government made a really bad decision to give the religious establishment more power. That mistake was not utterly ridiculous–the Shah had just been overthrown for, in part, pushing modernity too quickly on his people–but it was a mistake.
And yes, there is a strain within Islam that permits, if not encourages, violence. There have been strains within Christianity that tend that way, too–http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm, for one. But is it Islam that leads to fundamentalist violence, or fundamentalism that leads to Islamic violence?
November:15:2009 - 10:02
John excellent question AND people tend to laugh at me cause I tend to try to answer rhetorical questions.
I think fundamentalism leads to Islamic violence.
Hi Jay! I think John got lots of patience
November:15:2009 - 11:58
I think Islam is used as a cloak for clinging to Patriarchal, Misogynistic, Tribal customs, and when subgroups of people try to change that status quo- those in power use Islam to excuse whatever violence may be necessary to stay in control. There is also a lot of insecurity thrown into that, as they can’t help but see how much more successful other cultures are on many levels.
And then of course, there is the Palestinian/Israeli situation that just fuels a general sense of anger- as well as a few true zealots who think if they get everyone “religious enough” all the Islamic communities ills will go away.
It’s complicated
November:15:2009 - 12:23
Yep…
You might be interested in reading The Ghost Dance, by Weston La Barre. The book’s terminology is a bit dated (very Freudian), but the analysis is excellent. It’s about how societies tend to follow particular paths when they’re confronted with a need to change, particularly when that need comes from the outside. It’s almost uncanny how similar the reactions are, almost as though they were hardwired into the human psyche.
And yes, religion is a major facet, no matter what religion.
November:16:2009 - 08:50
I agree with Sparky an Sandy, I’m not going to repeat it in my own words…
John, I will look up the book, sounds very interesting.
November:17:2009 - 00:27
Bismillaah
It is the fundamentals of Islam that are not correctly learned and practiced. Due to this, we find crazy & psychotic killers who (it seems) honestly believe they are doing the Lord’s work. They will wish they were fundamentalists when they are severely questioned in the grave for their crimes against humanity and them selves.
Generally, you don’t really hear much argument of fundamentalism when America kills someone using their forms of inhumane capital punishment.
But a Muslim country practicing capital punishment, in a humane manner, to a menace in society is so horrible, backward and fundamental?
What are the fundamentals of Islam? They are proper understanding of Tawhid (monotheism), aqeedah (creed) and proper adab (manners). The best Muslims in the earth are fundamentalists because they see the importance in proper understanding of the religion in accordance with Allaah’s Messenger (peace on him) and the first three Muslim generations.
Perhaps the fundamentalism you are speaking of is the coined term from Richard Dawkins. He has used the term to characterize religious advocates as clinging to a stubborn, entrenched position that defies reasoned argument or contradictory evidence. However, this is the wrong term to be used as all of Islam’s beliefs and legislation is from a sound and reasoned argument. The type of Muslims you are speaking of are known to have beliefs in sync with the Khawarij, Sayyad Kutb &/or the Muslim Brotherhood. These were not ever Islaamic fundamentalists! They have no understanding of the religion!
“Regarding the Khawarij, Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, one of the great Salafi scholars of this time, said: ‘So having enthusiasm and an over-protective love for the religion is not sufficient. They must be founded upon knowledge and understanding of Allah’s religion.’”
- abridged from the book, The ‘Wahhabi’ Myth
And in order to be founded upon knowledge and understanding of Islam one must properly understand the Fundamentals of Islam.
“Senior Salafi scholars have clarified the overabundance of calamitous errors which are contained within Sayyid Qutb’s books. They have spoken about the subjects which have been mentioned in this book, and they have spoken about other areas of creed which Qutb fell into error in, which have not been mentioned in this book. Anyone who still insists on hanging on to certain personalities from amongst the Islamic “thinkers” such as Sayyid Qutb, Abu Alaa Maududi, and Hasan al-Banna, and refuses to reject the deviation of the contemporary groups and movements, has removed themselves from the methodology of Salafism, even if they attempt to ascribe themselves to it.”
- abridged from the book, The ‘Wahhabi’ Myth
November:17:2009 - 13:52
Halimah,
I have a few questions for you. You seem sincere and are certainly expansive…
1. How do you know what are the true’fundamentals’ of islam? You say that these depend on a “proper understanding” of the life of Mohammad and the companions. Where is the Quran in this? Is it less than perfect, so much that by itself it is inadequate? The key word here is obviously “understanding.” Or in other words, why are your fundamentals better than those of x, y and z? Why do you think that your version of fundamentals is better than that of the Muslim Brotherhood, when we know they provide quranic verses that in no incertain terms support their ideology?
2. why do you say that ‘as all’ Muslim beliefs come from sound arguments without ever explaining those arguments? Isn’t this nothing but circular reasoning that Islam is perfect so any reasoning based upon Islam is perfect because Islam is perfect. In other words, you say the knowledge and understanding depends on knowing the fundamentals of islam which can only be gained by the knowledge and understanding of islam. It is a chicken and egg thing. Where is the logic and substance? If the arguments are so clear, why the need to silence anybody that raises issues?
The problem is that fundamentalists, you and those you say are wrong, all start from a preconceived notion that your understanding is correct, that only you (or them) have the ability to see things correctly. Not only that, this is compounded by a preconceived notion that an specific ideology is perfect.
This position is irrational. It cannot exist in a liberal world of free ideas and speech. Thus, fundamentalism, yours and theirs, is necessarily intolerant and violent.
Kactuz
PS: How the heck did you come to the conclusion that Islamic capital punishment is humane while that of done in America is inhumane?
November:17:2009 - 14:22
Halimah
Fundamental definition
fundamentals – principles from which other truths can be derived; “first you must learn the fundamentals”; “let’s get down to basics”
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
This definition serves to say or let’s say basically I agree with you in that the fundamentals of Islam are the five pillars JIHAD NOT INCLUDED. K
The ‘Five Pillars’ of Islam are the foundation of Muslim life:
Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
Establishment of the daily prayers;
Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
Self-purification through fasting; and
The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
http://www.islam101.com/dawah/pillars.html
Going beyond has not been recommended and I can understand why to be honest.
A fundamentalist or fundamentalism that leads to Islamic Violence transpires as follows in which one literally follows each and every word literally thus they are a literalist. These people end up getting psychotic…agreed.
“fundamentalism – the interpretation of every word in the sacred texts as literal truth
Protestantism – the theological system of any of the churches of western Christendom that separated from the Roman Catholic Church during the Reformation”
I am not going to spout out Quranic verses, but I am sure you know what I am talking about.
November:17:2009 - 14:32
I would guess it’s “the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad” part that legitimizes fundamentalism most. If “psychosis” is the result of following “each and every word literally”, how do Muslims know that that isn’t what God desires?
November:17:2009 - 14:35
I will just say, defining the “fundamentals” is indeed problematic. From looking at Halimah’s website, I definately have a fundamentally different view from those which are posted there.
Regardless, the term “fundamentalist” in common usage has it’s meaning- regardless of which faith/belief is being described- and trying to use it differently is counterproductive and confusing.
November:17:2009 - 14:41
Well Solomon2 I know you are Jewish but I don’t know if you are a Orthodox Jew but I wouldn’t ever be able to follow the strict rules Jews are supposed to. when I was a Christian, I had read the Torah numerous times and I thought God had wanted Jews to have some sort of mental breakdown with all the cleanliness bits and rituals. I believe such might lead to OCD of course less than a psychosis but who knows what God is thinking up there???.
November:17:2009 - 14:50
I have heard Christians saying they can do whatever they want (e.g. sin) or worse and that Jesus’s blood wipes their slate clean.
All of it sounds pretty darn psychotic if you ask me MUSLIM JEW AND CHRISTIAN INCLUDED.
Let us (those who are) come down off of the religious HIGH!
November:17:2009 - 18:22
John–excellent article! Thanks! I only disagree with the following “This was a dastardly act by a psychopath”, but as the author is clearly stating journalistic opinion I am happy to let it go.
I agree that “Islam is not about fundamentalism.” However some fundamentalists are about Islam, and can also be found in most if not all religions, including currently and most dangerously the other 2 Abrahamic ones.
The word fundamentalism is only loosely related to fundamentals in the broader sense, of foundations or basics. It does seem that fundamentalists are often literalists and universalists, and have a dubious relationship to history and historicism.
I’d throw in a few more -ims but I have to go for dinner.
November:17:2009 - 23:06
I personally question anybody that has no doubts about any faith or ideology. I question their honesty and intellectual capacity. Because we are talking Islam, I question the sanity of anybody that reads the Quran and hadith and says they are textually coherent, morally perfect and scientificly correct (No, the sun does not set into a field of mud). I could also extend that thought to other sacred books.
Fundamentalism, any fundamentalism, because it replaces reason with emotions and feelings, has no place in the world of equality, personal freedom and human rights. “Because somebody said so” is not good enough for me. Fundamentalism always leads to discrimination and violence. Anybody that cites Mohammad and the following generations as moral examples obvious hasn’t read the ancient writings, written by Muslims (Not just Muslims, but close friends friends and followers of Islam’s prophet). I’ll leave it at that.
One thing the Chriatians have going for them are two passages in the New testiment: 1. When jesus says “My kingdom is not of this world” and 2. Give unto ceasar the things that are ceasars and unto god the things that are gods. Those two verses give no excuse for Christians to pursue heaven on earth. Ain’t gonna happen. See, I know the Bible too. All those Sunday School classes kick in 55-60 years later. ha!
But what I really want to know is how Solomon2 continues to post at Altmuslim.com while I have been banned for years. Is that fair? Obviously Sol is a really nice guy, even if jewish!
Chiara? Have you ever been to Scottsdale? I mean Snottsdale? For some reason, in some post somewhere I got that impression. You don’t have to answer.
J.
November:18:2009 - 04:49
I don’t know if you are a Orthodox Jew -
Most Jews would class me as Orthodox since I keep strictly kosher, don’t drive or flip electric switches on Shabbat, and attend an Orthodox shul.
I wouldn’t ever be able to follow the strict rules Jews are supposed to…I had read the Torah numerous times and I thought God had wanted Jews to have some sort of mental breakdown -
Your sympathy is appreciated, sometimes I think the same! The thing is, the “rules” don’t exist in isolation, but in relation to each other; you have to grasp at understanding the whole to understand the bits. (A good Talmudic education or rabbi helps.) So Jews aren’t out there burning witches, for example. We also realize (most of us) that it’s quite possible to follow all the “rules” and still mess things up with God. There are many fine Jews who are Conservative or Reform, and some Orthodox who have a bad attitude towards others because they think, erroneously, that greater observance gives one license to be contemptuous of others.
The best short summary of Judaism is still Hillel’s Golden Rule, “What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn”. Implied in that are timeless concepts of truth, justice, modesty, conduct – all salted with what nowadays we call “common sense”. We don’t necessarily have to “know what God is thinking” (indeed there is great room for doubt), for the rituals we observe are all meant to reinforce these principles as our obligations to God – and if they take some effort to do sometimes, that may make the reward of inner peace all the greater.
So Jews may be neurotic about what their conduct should be, yet rarely psychotic because they know they are to deal with the real world, not impose something “perfect” upon others.
Even most “non-observant” Jews feel they follow these precepts. Consider, for example, by the disproportionate number who pursue law, science, and accounting as their trades, and the attachment many have to the ideals of economic fairness and justice towards all men and women, regardless of religion, race, or creed.
I apologize for this too brief, incomplete, and awkward explanation. If I was a rabbi and had greater learning I think I might be able to explain it rather better.
November:18:2009 - 09:05
Thank you for your explanation Solomon2. I think you did a great job and I respect Jews. I am studying a little bit about Judaism. I really like the Jewish outlook.
November:18:2009 - 17:06
Cactaceous–Is that a passive aggressive attempt at insulting me? Don’t answer if you don’t want to.
Solomon2–nice summary! One of my favourite philosophers is Martin Buber; and Victor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning and contributions to logotherapy and existential therapy are crucial to contemporary therapies. Hillel’s quote is up there too!
November:18:2009 - 22:48
Chiara,
No, I didn’t mean it that way. It just that I remember Scottsdale when it was a wide spot in the road north of Tempe (pronounced Tempee), unincorporated, all four blocks of it.
It is that Scottsdale has a reputation, partly deserved.
When I was a kid my Grandpa would tell me stories of Old Phoenix (1898-1917). He was the foreman at the old Ingleside, Arizona’s first resort (Now the Arcadia area), and he knew Old Scott quite well.
Please, no offense intended. As a peace offering I give you Carmen Miranda, 1939, singing “O que que a Bahiana Tem”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojo3I59Gn6c&feature=related
J.
November:19:2009 - 01:21
“Name calling is not good-natured and children do not grow out of it. As adults they merely become more expert in its use…Most children are very vulnerable to names that play upon the child’s rightful name-no doubt one’s true masculinity or femininity.”
Thank god we are not children here. Sparky now turned a leaf. Mediator
November:19:2009 - 09:47
Jay Kactuz–thank you for clarifying, apologizing, and the gift. I see we share a love of Latin American music. Here is a family favourite:
Vaya con Dios–original Spanish recording 1953 by Mexican
MIGUEL ACEVES MEJÍA, VAYA CON DIOS (1953)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AISZ01IDj2o
Sparky–J and I have been bantering about his last name on multiple blogs for ages. We both take it in good spirit. Seems to me like you are on your same leaf. No worries.
November:19:2009 - 10:58
http://www.Irak.xmc.pl...
Der Islam hat sich im Gegensatz zu Juden- und Christentum bis heute nicht von den Vorstellungen des frühen Mittelalters gelöst, die islamische Gottesvorstellung öffnet der Willkür Tür und Tor. Das wird ganz bewußt so belassen; denn das Neue, das Mohamm…
November:19:2009 - 12:55
Bismillaah
As for the evidence of making sure I follow the correct belief in Islam:
Prophet Muhammad peace on him, said: “The best of my nation is my generation then those who follow them and then those who follow them.” (Saheeh Bukhaaree)
Ahl as-Sunnah believe that the Caliph after the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) is Abu Bakr; then ‘Umar; then ‘Uthman, then ‘Ali, and that whoever contests the Caliphate of any one of these Imams is indeed more lost than an ass. Ahl as-Sunnah do not think that each of the Sahabah (May Allah be pleased with them) is infallible of committing grave sins or light sins, but that they are liable to commit general offenses. Nevertheless, to them belongs priority in accepting Islam and in doing good deeds which qualify them for forgiveness of what they may have committed, to the extent that their offenses are forgiven. The same offenses will not be forgiven of those who come after them because they (as-Sahabah (May Allah be pleased with them) have a credit of good deeds which erase the bad deeds, a credit the generations after them do not have. It has been confirmed by the saying of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): “That they are the best of all generations,” (hadith al-Bukhari and Muslim)
[Ahl as-Sunnah] urge people to mend the relations with those who have broken with them, to give to those who have deprived them, and to forgive those who have done injustice to them. They order people to keep filial piety, to be good to other relatives, to be good neighbors, to treat orphans, wayfarers and the poor kindly and to be gentle and humane to the slave. They forbid bragging, arrogance and transgression. They prevent people from feeling superior over others, rightly or wrongly. And they bid people use high manners and prohibit them from pursuing trifles. All that they say or do of the above, or of other than it, in all of it they follow the Book (The Qur’an) and the Sunnah. Their “path” is the religion of Islam, for which Allah sent Muhammad (peace be upon him).
But for all this, the Prophet (peace be upon him) foretold: “That his ‘Ummah will split into seventy-three factions, all of them in Hell except one: The Jama’ah (the Community).” (Reported by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
And (the Prophet) (peace be upon him) said in another hadith: “They are those who will follow what I am and what my companions are today.” (at-Tirmidhi)
As for the inhumane treatment prisoners go through for capital punishment in America:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/descriptions-execution-methods
Come on, everyone knows how horribly painful that is. There have been cases of inmates having to bash their head into walls repeatedly to kill themselves while inside the gas chamber.
But, I guess you fundamentally missed my earlier point which makes it useless to go into this discussion.
As for Islaamic capital punishment it is but a chop off of the head, which is very fast and done with a very sharp sword. They feel absolutely nothing.
Jihad/war has many conditions that must be met before it can be carried out and no Muslim country has engaged in such a war in a very long time.
You see something wrong with America or other countries ever sending their troops to war? Any kind of war? Why, don’t you then spend your time speaking out about that as it is happening everyday.
Just because people like using labels i.e: Fundamentalism, jihad, intolerant, literalists and etc, does not show anything other then a need to put people in categories (even incorrect categories) just to make them self appear more superior. So, what is it you are trying to make up for that you are lacking?
As for being intolerant I do not like gays, free mixing with alien men, rapists, child molesters, drugs or their users, sellers and ect. These harmful people and acts which destroy all of society have been talked about in all the Abrahamic faiths.
Do I go looking for these kind of people to argue, hurt or scare them? No, never. So how am I intolerant again? I am not calling you any labels, making any guesses about your character or even criticizing your religious beliefs.
So, what is your religion and manner of living and how is it better then mine? or even more right?
And finally how am I replacing reason with emotions?
Labeling and putting people into boxes is not generally a good idea when you have no idea of these people’s ‘fundamental’ differences. If you can not see the differences between me and the Muslim Brotherhood, Sayd Kutb and their likes then you certainly have no intellectual stance. Trying to discuss such innate and complex differences is definitely out of your league as you have already succumbed to your intolerance and I hope to not see your violence next.
November:19:2009 - 16:12
That is certainly an orthodox understanding of things followed by many, but certainly not all Muslims.
November:19:2009 - 20:25
Halimah bint David , please correct me if I’m wrong, but does this mean that “the evidence of making sure I follow the correct belief in Islam” is that you consider yourself a Sunni Muslim?
November:20:2009 - 01:57
Bismillaah
Assalaamu Alaikum!
To be honest I really don’t like the generalizations but, yes I am considered to be a ‘sunni’ Muslim
I am working to make sure I understand and follow the correct belief. Meaning I am always checking myself and never completely comfortable lest I make or think some kind of error. Learning anything is a lifetime experience and it will take me my lifetime to learn and hopefully practice Islam correctly. I am no Islamic scholar, katib or even noteworthy of my knowledge. And I constantly remind myself of this fact so that I can accept the proper understandings when I am incorrect on any particular stance. No one is perfect and life is about making mistakes living and learning.
November:20:2009 - 01:59
Halimah,
I read your essay and I found it to be 824 words of inanity. You talk about “reason” but write silly ideas devoid of facts and logic. You make statements about people and things that are absolutely false. As someone who has read the ahadith and most of the major works on Islam (including Tabari, Kathir, Hisham and others), I find you to be totally ignorant of Islamic history.
First of all, to declare certain people as men of piety and goodness, is to ignore your own sources. The times of your prophet and “the first generations” (as you say) were times of continuous battles and bloodshed. Any reading of Islamic history shows this. Mohammad fought a dozen battles and personally led 26 raids on villages and caravans. He sent out another two dozen. He even attacked mosques. After his death it was no better. The Umma was in a state of turmoil as Muslim fought Muslim for power and riches. To give you an idea of the extent of this violence, in three campaigns, the Battle of Bassorah (Battle of the Camel), the Battle of Siffin, and the Battle of Nahrawan, Muslim records say that 85,000 Muslim warriors were killed, by other Muslims.
Here is more from chapter 59 of Bukhari’s hadith called Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (Al-Maghaazi). Read the whole thing then keep on reading. from 285 to 749.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/059.sbt.html
Do you think that the so-called “conditions for jihad” were met in these attacks?
The ahadith tell a lot of good, uplifting and even funny stories about your prophet and his friends. Mohammad was obviously smart, a good leader, had a sense of humor, and very skilled in tactical warfare. The ahadith also tell tales of endless raids on peaceful villages, looting, murder, enslavement of men, women and children, torture and rape. How do you fit these with “high manners and mend relations”?. Remember, the ahadeeth were not written by Islam’s enemies, but by Muslims.
Now about the “rightly guided” Caliphs, I call your attention to this passage in Muslim’s hadith (4345)
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/019.smt.html
So, Abu Bakr attacks women, herds them into captivity like cattle and then prepares to strip a pretty girl when Mohammad arrives. Instead of taking her, he trades her to release his soldiers. Now where is the morality there? Why didn’t Mohammad punish Abu Bakr (his father in law) on the spot? Why didn’t Mohammad return the girl to her mother and release all the women? See, Halimah, that is how you ask questions. Do you really think that a man that did these things and later sent out armies to kill and conquer surrounding nations was a man of morals? Did Allah guide Abu Bakr to attack those women? Is this an example of the “best generations”?
You are like a robot. You do not think. You do not feel. You have no standards for yourself. You use words like goodness, piety, kind and gentle but you have no idea of the meaning of these words. You and people like you are hypocrites. You accuse America of waging endless wars (true) but the endless battles in your scared writings are fine because, to you, they are different.
To the others reader here I apologize but somebody needs to tell people like Halimah the simple, bitter truth. I really don’t understand him and I am glad I don’t. I am not writing this because he is Muslim but because he is an evil, blind, stupid, ignorant fool. See, I have no problem using “labels” when they fit just fine.
I doubt that Halimah is a Muslim, or even a fundamentalist Muslim. I know many Muslims and mostly they aren’t as foolish and dishonest as this man. The fundamentalists, for all their faults, don’t make up facts like this man does and they at least know their own traditions.
Halimah, it is people like you that build piles of dead bodies and then climb up on top of them to preach peace to the defeated sinners below as the victims look at the lifeless bodies of their husbands, wives and children that people like you murdered to spread your “truth”. I am also sure that you will not change. You think you know the truth and your so-called self-righteous truth is blind to reason, facts and emotion. You are just a sanctimonious pharisee, up to your eyeballs in filth yet always ready to judge others because they have a few spots on their souls. Your idols are covered in blood, but to you they are “the best of people”.
Morality is absolute, not relative to people places and times. When you write asinine things like your comments above, don’t do it around people that know more than you. I might not be a shinning example of virtue and brains, but at least I have some standards of honesty and decency, qualities that you don’t understand. Yeah, understanding how people have one set of standards for others but not for themselves is out of my league. I can’t do it. I don’t make excuses for America, for Bush, for Christians, for Bible personalities or for myself. Evil is evil, and if you can read the Quran and Traditions and not find evil, then you are evil, too.
I am disgusted with this whole thing. No wonder I find the human race to be a blight on this planet.
Got to go… I have to go mix with those horrible “alien men” …
November:20:2009 - 05:18
Did someone say alien? I think Halima might be a woman. Jay “tough love”? Sometimes it is needed but it can always be packaged sweeter.
As far as America, I don’t want to hear any complaints. To every religion and race out there if you come to America you can pretty much be whatever you want and as long as you are NOT trying to stop people being what they are then you are welcome!
I am the meeter greeter! Yes, Chiara still on the same leaf. I thought you were calling Jay a prick. Sorry guys if you have a common understanding.Fun teasing can be well fun hehehehe
November:20:2009 - 11:09
Sparky–I can honestly say I never thought of that possibility. I was just impressed with how Jay’s self-stated persona/personality, and comments are “prickly”, and he chose “Kactuz” as a blogonym–cute!
That said, Jay, go easy–I have no doubt Halimah is well-intended, and maybe you could think “Christmas cactus” or “Cactus pear” or “Cactus flower” and not your most thorniest variety. According to my blog friend who knows her well, she is definitely a woman, and her husband seems to think so too.
November:20:2009 - 12:19
to them belongs priority in accepting Islam and in doing good deeds which qualify them for forgiveness of what they may have committed…
So for the fundamentalists it may be better to bomb Shia and infidels “for Islam” and be comforted by the assurance of divine forgiveness afterward than to refrain from violence. (As one archbishop said of a group of Christian heretics, “Kill them all, and G-d will know his own.”)
I am always checking myself and never completely comfortable lest I make or think some kind of error.
You, on the other hand, judge your deeds in advance. Do you think that’s because you aren’t an Islamic scholar?
November:20:2009 - 12:56
I’m thinking both Halimah and J. take Hadith waaaayyy to seriously. Events took place in the 7h century. These sayings were not written down for 200 years. They can’t be taken at face value, out of historical/cultural context, or necessarily assumed true- even if they ARE Bukhari.
November:20:2009 - 13:59
Bismillaah
You don’t even know that Halimah is a women’s name!
Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
November:20:2009 - 14:02
Bismillaah
to them belongs priority in accepting Islam and in doing good deeds which qualify them for forgiveness of what they may have committed…
Is about and for the first three generations. You took it out of context and are incorrect about your assumption. That’s the very same mistake many Muslims make whom commit forbidden atrocities.
November:20:2009 - 14:09
Thank you for the correction, Halimah.
November:20:2009 - 14:46
I completely agree, but that’s not considered an even thinkable position to take in most of the Islamic world. In my opinion, the Hadith should be thrown out entirely as corrupt or highly suspect.
November:20:2009 - 15:41
John–sorry, with which comment are you agreeing? I’m guessing Sandy’s but not sure.
November:20:2009 - 17:15
Yes, Sandy’s on hadith.
November:20:2009 - 18:01
Thanks. I agree that both her comment and your recommendation are unlikely to happen! A relatively safe prediction! LOL