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	<title>Comments on: More on Maj. Hasan</title>
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	<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/</link>
	<description>Informed comment and commentary about Saudi Arabia, reform, and its relations with the US</description>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25258</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25258</guid>
		<description>&quot;jingoistically crazy&quot; is a great expression. The former Berlin, Ontario is now Waterloo--hmmm.

Some of the Italians were true fascisti, including a very prominent media personality in Montreal, who didn&#039;t bother hiding it. Italian and German claims for reparations like those made to the Japanese have fallen on unsympathetic ears, mostly because they were reasonably treated officially during the war. 

I have family who were required to report in weekly because they were on a social club list whose head was a fascist supporter. Their descendants are ashamed to this day, even knowing they were innocent of wrongdoing. 

There was a documentary on the Italian Canadians in WWII done about 10 years ago, a professor who has written a history, and an MP who wants her father&#039;s reputation restored and reparations made. To which my older relatives say, &quot;The ones who were taken were guilty and they didn&#039;t round up all the ones they should have&quot;. The rest of the Canadian Italian community seems to feel the same way, hence little chance of blowing up any perceived slight into a massive ethnic grievance.

The Japanese did deserve reparations, but the Chinese who came voluntarily and paid the head tax don&#039;t fall into the same category, although they are agitating too, or were until the economy took a nose dive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;jingoistically crazy&#8221; is a great expression. The former Berlin, Ontario is now Waterloo&#8211;hmmm.</p>
<p>Some of the Italians were true fascisti, including a very prominent media personality in Montreal, who didn&#8217;t bother hiding it. Italian and German claims for reparations like those made to the Japanese have fallen on unsympathetic ears, mostly because they were reasonably treated officially during the war. </p>
<p>I have family who were required to report in weekly because they were on a social club list whose head was a fascist supporter. Their descendants are ashamed to this day, even knowing they were innocent of wrongdoing. </p>
<p>There was a documentary on the Italian Canadians in WWII done about 10 years ago, a professor who has written a history, and an MP who wants her father&#8217;s reputation restored and reparations made. To which my older relatives say, &#8220;The ones who were taken were guilty and they didn&#8217;t round up all the ones they should have&#8221;. The rest of the Canadian Italian community seems to feel the same way, hence little chance of blowing up any perceived slight into a massive ethnic grievance.</p>
<p>The Japanese did deserve reparations, but the Chinese who came voluntarily and paid the head tax don&#8217;t fall into the same category, although they are agitating too, or were until the economy took a nose dive.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25238</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25238</guid>
		<description>In the US, certain German and Italian groups were under surveillance and some were shut down as security risks. Some Germans, Italians, and others were also arrested. German military infiltrators found in the US were summarily executed. For the more assimilated ethnic individuals, though, there wasn&#039;t a great deal of trouble. Most of the problematically named town in the US had changed those names during WWI, so there wasn&#039;t a lot to be done. There are still US cities named Berlin, Hanover, Dresden, etc., though. Not everyone went jingoistically crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the US, certain German and Italian groups were under surveillance and some were shut down as security risks. Some Germans, Italians, and others were also arrested. German military infiltrators found in the US were summarily executed. For the more assimilated ethnic individuals, though, there wasn&#8217;t a great deal of trouble. Most of the problematically named town in the US had changed those names during WWI, so there wasn&#8217;t a lot to be done. There are still US cities named Berlin, Hanover, Dresden, etc., though. Not everyone went jingoistically crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25235</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25235</guid>
		<description>John--thanks for the added information. At least in Canada Italians who arrived after 1922 and anyone who was a member of an Italian social club, as well as known fascist supporters were under close surveillance throughout WWII, and had to report in monthly to the RCMP, or weekly if there was more &quot;cause&quot; for concern. There were paid informants in the community, like the barber. Some were arrested and a small minority held in custody for the duration.  They also had a curfew.  I do know some German Canadians were detained as well but know less about that. 

Towns with names like Berlin changed them, probably during WWI. German Canadians also anglicized their names--as did the &quot;Windsors&quot; for that matter.

Alas, Canada also dispossessed the Japanese Canadians and put them in prison camps. At the end of the war they were generally displaced throughout the country and began again from 0.

However, Quakers are well known conscientious objectors, as were the Doukhobors who are known for their public nude parading as a form of passive resistance, including to conscription.

I am surprised that Major Hasan was not allowed to invoke conscientious objector status, at least to stay in service in the US. In hindsight it seems a much more useful solution all round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John&#8211;thanks for the added information. At least in Canada Italians who arrived after 1922 and anyone who was a member of an Italian social club, as well as known fascist supporters were under close surveillance throughout WWII, and had to report in monthly to the RCMP, or weekly if there was more &#8220;cause&#8221; for concern. There were paid informants in the community, like the barber. Some were arrested and a small minority held in custody for the duration.  They also had a curfew.  I do know some German Canadians were detained as well but know less about that. </p>
<p>Towns with names like Berlin changed them, probably during WWI. German Canadians also anglicized their names&#8211;as did the &#8220;Windsors&#8221; for that matter.</p>
<p>Alas, Canada also dispossessed the Japanese Canadians and put them in prison camps. At the end of the war they were generally displaced throughout the country and began again from 0.</p>
<p>However, Quakers are well known conscientious objectors, as were the Doukhobors who are known for their public nude parading as a form of passive resistance, including to conscription.</p>
<p>I am surprised that Major Hasan was not allowed to invoke conscientious objector status, at least to stay in service in the US. In hindsight it seems a much more useful solution all round.</p>
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		<title>By: Aafke</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25152</link>
		<dc:creator>Aafke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25152</guid>
		<description>Oby, I checked Dutch and German newspapers for you, they mention the shooting, the number of people injured or dead, that Hasan was very troubled about being send to Iraq, a muslim country.

A German newspaper mentions that Hasan wrote about 10 to 20 mails to the radical Imam in Yemen: Anwar al Awlaki.
They mention that the mails were examined, and were considered quite innocent so Maj. Hasan was not considered a danger.
They also mention Aulaqi&#039;s comment on his own website. 
And then some speculations as why the major was so unhappy and what drove him to the killingspree.

On the whole the German newspapers are more in-depth as the Dutch ones. As usual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oby, I checked Dutch and German newspapers for you, they mention the shooting, the number of people injured or dead, that Hasan was very troubled about being send to Iraq, a muslim country.</p>
<p>A German newspaper mentions that Hasan wrote about 10 to 20 mails to the radical Imam in Yemen: Anwar al Awlaki.<br />
They mention that the mails were examined, and were considered quite innocent so Maj. Hasan was not considered a danger.<br />
They also mention Aulaqi&#8217;s comment on his own website.<br />
And then some speculations as why the major was so unhappy and what drove him to the killingspree.</p>
<p>On the whole the German newspapers are more in-depth as the Dutch ones. As usual.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25151</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25151</guid>
		<description>German- and Italian-Americans did fight in Europe during WWII. The exception was with Japanese-American soldiers. They were permitted to fight &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; in Europe, not Asia, as it was feared that &#039;blood&#039; would be thicker than citizenship. This, of course, was at a time when Japanese-Americans were removed from their homes on the West Coast and moved to internment camps on the interior. Racism? Absolutely.

The experience of German-Americans was less salubrious during WWI. Then, many German-Americans found it useful to Anglicize their names to avoid problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>German- and Italian-Americans did fight in Europe during WWII. The exception was with Japanese-American soldiers. They were permitted to fight <em>only</em> in Europe, not Asia, as it was feared that &#8216;blood&#8217; would be thicker than citizenship. This, of course, was at a time when Japanese-Americans were removed from their homes on the West Coast and moved to internment camps on the interior. Racism? Absolutely.</p>
<p>The experience of German-Americans was less salubrious during WWI. Then, many German-Americans found it useful to Anglicize their names to avoid problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25149</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25149</guid>
		<description>John--I would agree except that the title slide and the Recommendation one are fairly non-debatable. He did use the ones in the middle to argue that Muslim Americans in the military should be allowed conscientious objector status. In the wake of what happened, at least in part by not allowing it to him as one honourable option over deployement to Afghanistan, it seems like a good idea to me.

Did German and Italian Americans fight in the European theatre in WWII? Aoparently not. However, if you have more info than I do on that, I would be happy to learn more. My Italian Canadian older uncles served but in Canada, eg. RCAF patrolling the Canadian Atlantic for U-boats.


Re: Conscientious Objector Status in the US currently (form wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

&quot;In the United States, there are two main criteria for classification as a conscientious objector. First, the objector must be opposed to war in any form, Gillette v. United States, 401 U.S. 437. Second, the objection must be sincere, Witmer v. United States, 348 U.S. 375. That he must show that this opposition is based upon religious training and belief was no longer a criterion after cases broadened it to include non-religious moral belief, United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 and Welsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333. COs willing to perform non-combatant military functions are classed 1-A-O by the U.S.; those unwilling to serve at all are 1-O.&quot;

So there is precedence, and also in the UN Human Rights Code and in Nuremberg Principle IV.

This also explains some of the emphasis on religion in Major Hasan&#039;s presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John&#8211;I would agree except that the title slide and the Recommendation one are fairly non-debatable. He did use the ones in the middle to argue that Muslim Americans in the military should be allowed conscientious objector status. In the wake of what happened, at least in part by not allowing it to him as one honourable option over deployement to Afghanistan, it seems like a good idea to me.</p>
<p>Did German and Italian Americans fight in the European theatre in WWII? Aoparently not. However, if you have more info than I do on that, I would be happy to learn more. My Italian Canadian older uncles served but in Canada, eg. RCAF patrolling the Canadian Atlantic for U-boats.</p>
<p>Re: Conscientious Objector Status in the US currently (form wiki: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector</a></p>
<p>&#8220;In the United States, there are two main criteria for classification as a conscientious objector. First, the objector must be opposed to war in any form, Gillette v. United States, 401 U.S. 437. Second, the objection must be sincere, Witmer v. United States, 348 U.S. 375. That he must show that this opposition is based upon religious training and belief was no longer a criterion after cases broadened it to include non-religious moral belief, United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 and Welsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333. COs willing to perform non-combatant military functions are classed 1-A-O by the U.S.; those unwilling to serve at all are 1-O.&#8221;</p>
<p>So there is precedence, and also in the UN Human Rights Code and in Nuremberg Principle IV.</p>
<p>This also explains some of the emphasis on religion in Major Hasan&#8217;s presentation.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25136</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25136</guid>
		<description>I think that without hearing what he actually said, there&#039;s no way to know what he meant by those slides. I can take any of them and make them threatening or benevolent, or certainly ambiguous. Those are just bullet points, not a lecture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that without hearing what he actually said, there&#8217;s no way to know what he meant by those slides. I can take any of them and make them threatening or benevolent, or certainly ambiguous. Those are just bullet points, not a lecture.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25134</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25134</guid>
		<description>Sparky--thanks for your comment. I went through the slides carefully again (3rd time at least) and just see a standard and rather well done academic presentation. He is giving the religious background necessary to accomplish what he announced in the title, and draw his conclusions. 
Lookslike you had I will disagree (agreeably as usual) on this one. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sparky&#8211;thanks for your comment. I went through the slides carefully again (3rd time at least) and just see a standard and rather well done academic presentation. He is giving the religious background necessary to accomplish what he announced in the title, and draw his conclusions.<br />
Lookslike you had I will disagree (agreeably as usual) on this one. <img src='http://xrdarabia.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sparky</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25122</link>
		<dc:creator>Sparky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25122</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking the powerpoint. I read through it quickly and obviously there are misplaced (outplaced) slides which make it obvious. It is obvious that this is not purely an educational or a proposal presentation but rather has elements of hardcore dawa which is bizarre at a place of employment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking the powerpoint. I read through it quickly and obviously there are misplaced (outplaced) slides which make it obvious. It is obvious that this is not purely an educational or a proposal presentation but rather has elements of hardcore dawa which is bizarre at a place of employment.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2009/11/09/more-on-maj-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-25116</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=9194#comment-25116</guid>
		<description>This is the much discussed presentation on jihad by Major Hasan. NB it is well done standard academic fare:
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fatlasshrugs2000.typepad.com%2FMAJHasanSlides.pdf&amp;images=yes

NB the Recommendation that concludes the presentation: &quot;Department of Defense should allow Muslim Soldiers the option of being released as &quot;Conscientious objectors&quot; to increase troop morale and decrease adverse incidents&quot;.

Amen/Ameen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the much discussed presentation on jihad by Major Hasan. NB it is well done standard academic fare:<br />
<a href="http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fatlasshrugs2000.typepad.com%2FMAJHasanSlides.pdf&#038;images=yes" rel="nofollow">http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fatlasshrugs2000.typepad.com%2FMAJHasanSlides.pdf&#038;images=yes</a></p>
<p>NB the Recommendation that concludes the presentation: &#8220;Department of Defense should allow Muslim Soldiers the option of being released as &#8220;Conscientious objectors&#8221; to increase troop morale and decrease adverse incidents&#8221;.</p>
<p>Amen/Ameen</p>
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