Chiara- I agree it would be great to see a minimum age set in Saudi.

In this particular case (the article, we do not know what the girl was fleeing from. I think hearing her side of the story is important.

Sparky–we seem to agree on most of what you have said. Other Islamic countries have legal age minimums for marriage, which in Islam is the same as for sex. After independence from the French, Morocco’s ages for marriage were set by Sharia Family Law at 15 for girls and 18 for boys. In 2004 when the Moudwana was revised with clerical guidance, they were set at 18 for both, to encourage girls to graduate from high school first, at the urging of Moroccan feminists. Hopefully Saudi will see fit to do something similar, ie set minimum ages high enough that the persons in question have better decision-making capacity and more education, and include women in that calculus.

If a nosy or nasty neighbor etc. were to report it, at least in the city I live in; I don’t see it going as far as court IN REALITY unless the parents or guardian of the underage person were to press charges. Perhaps in Canada it happens that way.

Plus, IMO marriage cannot be compared to premarital sex. I understand the magnitude of premarital sex in Islam; however, I see more of a gross injustice in a father forcing his underage daughter (in this case a CHILD) to marry while still a child to collect a dowry worse than a person within the age of consent having sexual relations with an older person. My case for that point is that a person who engages in sex within the age of legal consent has made a choice and the former did not make a choice. The former also binds the person against their will for an indefinate amount of time and subjects them to many hardships.

Islamically, both of the above two cases are sinful transgressions. While I know there are lashings for premarital sex (if found guilty of course), all I am asking is what are the punishments for fathers who have forced their daughters into marriage? Are they questioned? Can legal actions be taken against them?

Yes, in the US there are laws to protect children and minors, and what I find especially appealing is that there are laws that give them a voice and some decision making rights.

Putting a minimum age on marriage in Saudi Arabia will help deter many of the abuses currently in practice which is mainly a mahram marrying a young girl off without her “real” consent. This is the point where people are blinded and where they will bring up the example of the Prophet and Aisha. Well, perhaps back in the day when people only lived to about age 40 that a girl that age in that society would really want to marry. I just think that nowadays very “unreligious” are trying to use any means they can especially under the guise of Islam to do whatever they want.

I think if the minimum age is established and let us say there would be sought off exceptions to the general rule (of minimum age) they would be more closely analyzed and scrutinized by those in authority before coming to any sort of conclusions (in this case allowing or disallowing the marriage). Perhaps the whole family would be reffered to someone like you for family therapy. I don’t know.

Sparky–good thing we disagree so civilly! The state can and does lay independent charges, if the acts are public, or if someone else reports it, eg jealous BFF, nasty neighbour, teacher, doctor, etc. In statutory rape only the when counts. Intercourse on the eve of attaining the legal age for consent to sex with a partner of that specific age = statutory rape. Girl/boy consents, seduces, is happy, parents agree but s/he is underage = statutory rape. The only difference MIGHT be in the sentencing (mitigating factors). This is the reason I always explain to students from traditional non-dating cultures the laws of statutory rape, that the normal age difference in their country (often 5-10 years) is suspect in North America (usually more around 0-5), and that graduate students involved romantically or sexually with a student currently in their TAing class can kiss their academic career goodbye.

A lot of places of employment require a background check and that includes sometimes criminal background checks. They look into all the nitty gritty. A potential employer could know how much you spend on lingerie. How? If, say, you open up a credit card at say “Victoria’s Secret” they can find out how much you spend there. That is why I much prefer a Visa.

At any rate, nothing anymore is a secret including and ESPECIALLY a person’s criminal history. People make mistakes and yes pay for them for the rest of their lives. Employers and society will judge people and shun them because of having a criminal background or even discriminate against them because of it.

I agree that pictures can stir up a lot of emotions and get people into trouble or put them in a light that they would much rather not be in. I honestly believe nothing can really be kept secret nowadays. There could always be someone creeping around a corner ready to take a snap… Since I have been back in the U.S. I have become more aware of all the cameras EVERYWHERE!!!

I think anything done in a public place is pretty much open game to be photographed. Is it right? Well, you can’t control people with their cameras. That is unless of course they are on your property without your permission. It sucks sometimes and sometimes its beneficial.

Thus, if punishments or any other activity are carried out in public; then, I would pretty much say they are open game to be photographed. What is done with the photographs is another story all together, but it was in a public place. I have seen people getting lethal injections and the electric chair on videos. I have seen the registries of sex offenders with their pics and addresses and can know exactly how many there are in my neighborhood and what they did exactly.

Thus, I say like Rihanna “Live your Life” and add my line would be “Live it Right” or else face the consequence of a bad or unfavorable pic. Does it suck? Hell yah. My biggest compassion is always reserved for the victims! I am trying to understand what kind of Saudi public punishment INTERESTED would object to having photographed? A drug dealer, a rapist, a murderer????

Chiara: The problem with US sex offender lists is that too many relatively innocuous things are being categorized as ‘sex crimes’. Urinating off the side of a highway, for instance, or ‘statutory rape’ when both are close to, but not quite at the legal age for sex. A college kid streaking at an event can end up suffering more than if he’d killed fellow students.

Two good articles on this in the Economist of Aug 6th 2009:
Sex laws: Unjust and ineffective
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14164614
Illiberal politics: America’s unjust sex laws
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14165460&mode=comment&page=1

But- I’m not convinced that’s why authorities stop the photos. I think they know how it will be perceived in world public opinion.