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	<title>Comments on: Saudi Women and Divorce</title>
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	<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/</link>
	<description>Informed comment and commentary about Saudi Arabia, reform, and its relations with the US</description>
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		<title>By: Saudi Women and Divorce &#124; Crossroads Arabia - Shia Women</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17614</link>
		<dc:creator>Saudi Women and Divorce &#124; Crossroads Arabia - Shia Women</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17614</guid>
		<description>[...] the rest here: Saudi Women and Divorce &#124; Crossroads Arabia  :country, december, eastern, in-a-tizzy-over-donations, john-burgess, rasulullah, saudi-divorce, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the rest here: Saudi Women and Divorce | Crossroads Arabia  :country, december, eastern, in-a-tizzy-over-donations, john-burgess, rasulullah, saudi-divorce, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DW</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17447</link>
		<dc:creator>DW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17447</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t saying that all Shia follow Iran but what I am implying that it certainly affects almost all of their social stature in the region. Especially in the eastern region of SA.

Its almost like the image implications that all Muslims/Arabs are terrorists/jihadis. It effects their image and renders them target for profiling even from government agencies. I seen my share of radical perspective from both sides and recently I came to respect those from both sects that dared to question the political affiliations of their sects. For example when recently a group of Saudi Shia clerks with a collateral effort from other Shia sect in the Middle East region spoke up about the faith and how its been radicalized of late, the questioned about Khumus (1 fifth Shia followers pay to their clergy structure), I believe Saudijeans talked about it of recent. Its an admirable compromise to create integration. In the eastern region you might not find the Sunni oblivious about Shia, both might have good integration with each other. However if you go question about Najd area opinion about the Eastern Region.. they will think Al Ahsa city for example to be a radical Shia area.. while the demographic is generally a mix of sub sects Sunni and Shia sects, some even have families that have both Shia believers and sunni believers. Yet there isn&#039;t tension between the two sides. Still a Sunni from Al Ahsa might think twice about going to Qateef area for example.. usually people fear what they don&#039;t understand.. even if it wasn&#039;t just.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t saying that all Shia follow Iran but what I am implying that it certainly affects almost all of their social stature in the region. Especially in the eastern region of SA.</p>
<p>Its almost like the image implications that all Muslims/Arabs are terrorists/jihadis. It effects their image and renders them target for profiling even from government agencies. I seen my share of radical perspective from both sides and recently I came to respect those from both sects that dared to question the political affiliations of their sects. For example when recently a group of Saudi Shia clerks with a collateral effort from other Shia sect in the Middle East region spoke up about the faith and how its been radicalized of late, the questioned about Khumus (1 fifth Shia followers pay to their clergy structure), I believe Saudijeans talked about it of recent. Its an admirable compromise to create integration. In the eastern region you might not find the Sunni oblivious about Shia, both might have good integration with each other. However if you go question about Najd area opinion about the Eastern Region.. they will think Al Ahsa city for example to be a radical Shia area.. while the demographic is generally a mix of sub sects Sunni and Shia sects, some even have families that have both Shia believers and sunni believers. Yet there isn&#8217;t tension between the two sides. Still a Sunni from Al Ahsa might think twice about going to Qateef area for example.. usually people fear what they don&#8217;t understand.. even if it wasn&#8217;t just.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17446</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17446</guid>
		<description>What you say is true, but not all Shi&#039;a follow Iran, theologically or politically. Many Gulf Arabs, for instance, are of the Baharna school of Shi&#039;ite Islam, not the &#039;Usuli school as practiced in Iran. The former do not accept the political role taken by the Mullahs, for instance. The Ismailis in Najran, of course, are a completely different thread of Shi&#039;ism. To group them all together and to treat them the same (bad) way, is a huge political error, though it might make for expedient, or at least easy, politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you say is true, but not all Shi&#8217;a follow Iran, theologically or politically. Many Gulf Arabs, for instance, are of the Baharna school of Shi&#8217;ite Islam, not the &#8216;Usuli school as practiced in Iran. The former do not accept the political role taken by the Mullahs, for instance. The Ismailis in Najran, of course, are a completely different thread of Shi&#8217;ism. To group them all together and to treat them the same (bad) way, is a huge political error, though it might make for expedient, or at least easy, politics.</p>
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		<title>By: DW</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17440</link>
		<dc:creator>DW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17440</guid>
		<description>The biggest problem Shia is suffering from is their association with Iran, theologically it doesn&#039;t matter.. But the problem is Iran is heavily active politically active in influencing Shia population in other countries. This creates some doubts to accept Shia in government bodies because of the fear that their loyalty doesn&#039;t belong to the country but to a foreign body outside.

I have recently seen effort from both sides to improve the relations.. quell extremism and sectarian tension between the two. It&#039;s not going to be resolved in an overnight.. but change will be gradual.. hopefully it will allow a great turn out. I have met a lot of Shia teachers and colleague whom I respect for their professionalism and success. While I met some undereducated, under resourced Shia men who lived beyond their means in villages and had 4 wives. The stories that Shia and Sunnah have about each other now might not all be accurate, bad they still create an opinion about the other side. I do hope both take this time of change to reflect on themselves.. and see how one nation population became puppets for others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest problem Shia is suffering from is their association with Iran, theologically it doesn&#8217;t matter.. But the problem is Iran is heavily active politically active in influencing Shia population in other countries. This creates some doubts to accept Shia in government bodies because of the fear that their loyalty doesn&#8217;t belong to the country but to a foreign body outside.</p>
<p>I have recently seen effort from both sides to improve the relations.. quell extremism and sectarian tension between the two. It&#8217;s not going to be resolved in an overnight.. but change will be gradual.. hopefully it will allow a great turn out. I have met a lot of Shia teachers and colleague whom I respect for their professionalism and success. While I met some undereducated, under resourced Shia men who lived beyond their means in villages and had 4 wives. The stories that Shia and Sunnah have about each other now might not all be accurate, bad they still create an opinion about the other side. I do hope both take this time of change to reflect on themselves.. and see how one nation population became puppets for others.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17423</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17423</guid>
		<description>I think this is what Abdullah is trying to change. He cannot make it happen overnight; he cannot shove it down the collective throat of the ulema. 

He can and does keep continued pressure on them. He can and does insist on religious dialogue among the sects in Saudi Arabia. He has lightened the burden on the Shi&#039;a, even if he cannot command the ulema to welcome them as equals. I wish him a long life to get done all the things that need doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is what Abdullah is trying to change. He cannot make it happen overnight; he cannot shove it down the collective throat of the ulema. </p>
<p>He can and does keep continued pressure on them. He can and does insist on religious dialogue among the sects in Saudi Arabia. He has lightened the burden on the Shi&#8217;a, even if he cannot command the ulema to welcome them as equals. I wish him a long life to get done all the things that need doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sparky</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17418</link>
		<dc:creator>Sparky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17418</guid>
		<description>YEah let&#039;s get rid o the self-chosen theological autocrats (The ULEMAA) ! ! ! 


Not such a bad idea...

I thought I wasn&#039;t supposed to be here commenting...HEY when it&#039;s good its good. hehehehehehehehehehe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YEah let&#8217;s get rid o the self-chosen theological autocrats (The ULEMAA) ! ! ! </p>
<p>Not such a bad idea&#8230;</p>
<p>I thought I wasn&#8217;t supposed to be here commenting&#8230;HEY when it&#8217;s good its good. hehehehehehehehehehe</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17416</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17416</guid>
		<description>I agree that many Saudi Muslim women seek to experience a society not bound by the current rules imposed by the ulemaa.

This again, though, takes me to the notion that the primary issue is the absence of separation between religious law (as defined by the ulemaa) and man-made laws.

In a society truly guided by the religion of the Rasulullah, there would be freedom of conscience to express and choose one own&#039;s theology.

So, if a woman chose to adopt a Sufi perspective, that would be permitted, or an Allawi perspective, etc.

The real difficulty is that governmental power and governmental compulsory mechanisms have been given over to the ulemaa.

As the Rasulullah indicated, there should be no compulsion in religion.  That would include an absence of compulsion by self-chosen theological autocrats (the ulemaa).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that many Saudi Muslim women seek to experience a society not bound by the current rules imposed by the ulemaa.</p>
<p>This again, though, takes me to the notion that the primary issue is the absence of separation between religious law (as defined by the ulemaa) and man-made laws.</p>
<p>In a society truly guided by the religion of the Rasulullah, there would be freedom of conscience to express and choose one own&#8217;s theology.</p>
<p>So, if a woman chose to adopt a Sufi perspective, that would be permitted, or an Allawi perspective, etc.</p>
<p>The real difficulty is that governmental power and governmental compulsory mechanisms have been given over to the ulemaa.</p>
<p>As the Rasulullah indicated, there should be no compulsion in religion.  That would include an absence of compulsion by self-chosen theological autocrats (the ulemaa).</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17414</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17414</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification/correction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification/correction.</p>
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		<title>By: DW</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17409</link>
		<dc:creator>DW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17409</guid>
		<description>John, I have a friend who is jawa, he studied even in kfupm.. while he and his father are under the sponsorship of a relative. None is his immediate family has a citizenship. I do urge him to follow up and try to get a citizenship since he only has a Chinese passport(which his family decided to drop recently) and no current citizenship atm and he didn&#039;t leave Saudi for a long while. I do not blame him though for not trying because of the really restrictive system they have now.

He is no different than any other Saudi, he got to complete his education to holding his bachelor degree (hopefully next semester)

But I think maybe non-Saudi wives who get divorced have their citizenship revoked. I cannot confirm about how that would affect the children education. But I can confirm that any Saudi citizen with a foreign parent cannot join any military establishment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I have a friend who is jawa, he studied even in kfupm.. while he and his father are under the sponsorship of a relative. None is his immediate family has a citizenship. I do urge him to follow up and try to get a citizenship since he only has a Chinese passport(which his family decided to drop recently) and no current citizenship atm and he didn&#8217;t leave Saudi for a long while. I do not blame him though for not trying because of the really restrictive system they have now.</p>
<p>He is no different than any other Saudi, he got to complete his education to holding his bachelor degree (hopefully next semester)</p>
<p>But I think maybe non-Saudi wives who get divorced have their citizenship revoked. I cannot confirm about how that would affect the children education. But I can confirm that any Saudi citizen with a foreign parent cannot join any military establishment.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/12/12/saudi-women-and-divorce/comment-page-1/#comment-17407</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=6246#comment-17407</guid>
		<description>Only Saudis are permitted to attend Saudi schools (cooties or cultural imperialism are the fears I guess). Thus, one has to show citizenship papers to enroll. Sux, but them&#039;s the rules.

Stepford wives had it easier: they didn&#039;t feel the abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only Saudis are permitted to attend Saudi schools (cooties or cultural imperialism are the fears I guess). Thus, one has to show citizenship papers to enroll. Sux, but them&#8217;s the rules.</p>
<p>Stepford wives had it easier: they didn&#8217;t feel the abuse.</p>
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