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	<title>Comments on: Faith Healing, Saudi Style</title>
	<atom:link href="http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/</link>
	<description>Informed comment and commentary about Saudi Arabia, reform, and its relations with the US</description>
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		<title>By: Aafke</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15390</link>
		<dc:creator>Aafke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15390</guid>
		<description>SH I found this a very interesting piece, I will be interested to read more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SH I found this a very interesting piece, I will be interested to read more.</p>
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		<title>By: S H</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15375</link>
		<dc:creator>S H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 05:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15375</guid>
		<description>John &amp; Sparky,

I have not forgotten and I will certainly post my notes soon. The first few days of Ramadan are a bit difficult for me. I hope to finish soon and share my views.

Just keep an open mind on the subject. For those of us that are trained to look at evidence based thinking, for Muslims the evidence comes from the Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This is another reason I am trying to take time of providing not only views as a health professional but also taking into account evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah. I just try to take a balanced approach.

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &amp; Sparky,</p>
<p>I have not forgotten and I will certainly post my notes soon. The first few days of Ramadan are a bit difficult for me. I hope to finish soon and share my views.</p>
<p>Just keep an open mind on the subject. For those of us that are trained to look at evidence based thinking, for Muslims the evidence comes from the Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This is another reason I am trying to take time of providing not only views as a health professional but also taking into account evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah. I just try to take a balanced approach.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>By: Sparky</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15369</link>
		<dc:creator>Sparky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15369</guid>
		<description>S H I will be interested to see what you have...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S H I will be interested to see what you have&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: S H</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15367</link>
		<dc:creator>S H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15367</guid>
		<description>John, glad it kept your interest. You need not agree with the author. I will prepare some notes and share with you later tonight, God willing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, glad it kept your interest. You need not agree with the author. I will prepare some notes and share with you later tonight, God willing.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15348</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 07:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15348</guid>
		<description>That was a very interesting article! By all means, continue.

I do not agree with the author of this piece, but I also don&#039;t have those credentials. That doesn&#039;t stop me from having an opinion, of course! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a very interesting article! By all means, continue.</p>
<p>I do not agree with the author of this piece, but I also don&#8217;t have those credentials. That doesn&#8217;t stop me from having an opinion, of course! <img src='http://xrdarabia.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: S H</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15345</link>
		<dc:creator>S H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 06:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15345</guid>
		<description>John,

I was about to sleep and your article here kept going through my mind. This is a delicate subject but before I give you my views on this. Here is what a noted Islamic scholar psychologist, Dr. Malik Badri, had to say on this subject. 

Lets first start with academic biography of Dr. Badri:

– B.A. (with Distinction) American University of Beirut, 1956.
– Diploma of Education (Distinction), American University of Beirut, 1956.
– M.A. American University of Beirut, 1958.
– Ph.D., University of Leicester, England 1961.
– Postgrad. Certificate of Clinical Psychology, Academic Department of Psychiatry, Middlesex, Hospital, Medical School, London University, 1967.
– Fellowship of the British Psychological Society (F.B.Ps.S), 1977 (Division of Clinical Psychology).
– Chartered Psychologist (C.Psychol.) of the British, Psychological Society, 1989.
– A valid Practicing Certificate of the British Psychological Society.
– Clinical Fellow Behavior Therapy and Research Society, Temple University, USA, since 1985.
_ Honorary D.Sc., Ahfad University, Sudan
Career:
–Assistant Professor, American University of Beirut, Lebanon, 1962–64.
–Visiting Professor and Head of the Department of Psychology, University of Jordan, 1965.
–Appointed Reader in Psychology in the Department of Psychology and Education and Director of Counseling and Guidance Unit, Omdurman Islamic University, Sudan, 1967–71.
–Promoted to Full Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychology and appointed Director of the Psychological Clinic, University of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 1971–73 and 1974–77.
–Appointed UNESCO Expert in Psychology, Academy of Pedagogy, Bahar Dar, Ethiopia, 1973–74.
–Appointed Dean of the Faculty of Education of the University of Khartoum and Head of the Department of Applied Psychology, 1977–80.
–Appointed Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychology and senior clinical psychologist in the Medical Clinic of Imam Mohamad bin Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 1981–82 and 1984–85.
–Appointed Dean of the Faculty Education and acting Vice Chancellor, University of Juba, Southern Sudan (on secondment from the University of Mohamad bin Saud), 1983–84.
–Re–appointed professor of Psychology, Department of Psychology, University of Khartoum, Sudan, 1985–92.
–During the academic years 1986–89 I was asked to establish the Faculties of Islamic Studies and Education in the International African University, Khartoum, and to serve as Dean to these two Faculties besides my job as professor in the University of Khartoum.
–Joined the Department of Psychology of the International Islamic University, Malaysia, in June 1992 and served as professor of psychology until July 1994.
-Appointed professor of psychology in the International Institute of Islamic Thought and Civilization in July 1994, a postgraduate Institute affiliated with the International Islamic University.

Here is an answer Dr. Badri gave on this topic:

&quot;This issue is now being discussed in various psychological circles in the Islamic and Western world. A few years ago, the idea of a spiritual being possessing a human being was completely rejected by western psychologist as a form of superstitious beliefs carried over from the Middle Ages. More recently, as science matured and felt secure it began to re look into the possibility of the influence of such beings on humans. Chief among the modern psychiatrist and thinkers who discussed the possibility of spirit possession is Dr. M. Scott Peck the author of &quot;The Road Less Traveled&quot;. In one of his books he mentions that he has personally attended to cases of spirit possession in which the patient were cured after exorcism in a vary short time that does not happen in psychiatric treatment. Among Muslim psychologists there is an active group who have internet site headed by Dr. Mona Amer in which they have long discussions and evidences on this matter.

During the 1980&#039;s I was elected as a member of the World Health Organization committee (WHO) on traditional medical practices. In one meeting in Geneva we listened to doctors and researchers who delivered a number of papers in which they documented the dramatic improvement of patients in Africa and Asia who were treated by religiously oriented healers who practiced exorcism. My own research was on the traditional healing in Ethiopia and Sudan. I have also reported on similar cases.

In general those who are considered as possessed are those who are diagnosed by psychiatrists as suffering from schizophrenia and mania. The term schizophrenia is a very ambiguous term and psychiatrists give this label to any body exhibits the symptoms of delusions or false beliefs or who suffers from hallucinations in which he/she sees things that are not there or hears voices from invisible beings. In my study I listened to Muslim healers who strongly criticize this broad classification of mental illness. They say that to consider anybody schizophrenic only because he/she sees things and hears voices, is like a doctor who says that all patients who have fevers, headaches, and nausea are suffering from malaria. Since a high fever and headache can be caused by so many illnesses to stick to one diagnoses is not scientific. The same applies, as these healers argue, to the concept of schizophrenia. To be deluded and to hallucinate can be caused by a physical-biochemical imbalance in the brain or by a spirit possession or by alcoholic poisoning or some other reasons. The traditional healers also claim that the only evidence for the bio-chemical theory of schizophrenia is that patients improve when they are given the prescribed drug, but at least 25% or more of them do not improve and they become permanently kept in mental hospitals as chronic schizophrenics. These healers argue that if improvement is the evidence, then they have a number of cases of chronic schizophrenics who responded to their therapy in a much shorter time.

From this, we Muslims should not discard the possibility of Jinn possession. We have in the traditions of our prophet (pbuh) and the biography of early Muslim physicians much evidences to the value of reading the Quran and using its verses as therapy and a form of exorcism. We should be open minded in accepting the physical as well as the spiritual aspects of human nature. In May 2001 a very interesting conference was held in Dammam, Saudi Arabia in which psychiatrists and well-known traditional muslim healers discussed the value of Ruqaiyyah (prayer for therapeutic purposes as well as exorcism of Jinn possession). I took part in this conference and I was happy to see western trained Arab psychiatrists accepting the possibility of Jinn possession and showing their readiness to cooperate with Muslim healers by referring to them those who do not benefit from their modern psychiatric therapy.

It is very important for those who accept exorcism not to treat those possessed as sinful or deviant persons. Just as the body may develop a disorder, the soul can also be disordered. Both are a form of Ibtila (Trial) or test.&quot;

My apology for the long post. I believe it is important to first understand this issue from another perspective before passing judgment. 

Please let me know if you wish for me to continue and then I can share my own views.

Regards and goodnight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I was about to sleep and your article here kept going through my mind. This is a delicate subject but before I give you my views on this. Here is what a noted Islamic scholar psychologist, Dr. Malik Badri, had to say on this subject. </p>
<p>Lets first start with academic biography of Dr. Badri:</p>
<p>– B.A. (with Distinction) American University of Beirut, 1956.<br />
– Diploma of Education (Distinction), American University of Beirut, 1956.<br />
– M.A. American University of Beirut, 1958.<br />
– Ph.D., University of Leicester, England 1961.<br />
– Postgrad. Certificate of Clinical Psychology, Academic Department of Psychiatry, Middlesex, Hospital, Medical School, London University, 1967.<br />
– Fellowship of the British Psychological Society (F.B.Ps.S), 1977 (Division of Clinical Psychology).<br />
– Chartered Psychologist (C.Psychol.) of the British, Psychological Society, 1989.<br />
– A valid Practicing Certificate of the British Psychological Society.<br />
– Clinical Fellow Behavior Therapy and Research Society, Temple University, USA, since 1985.<br />
_ Honorary D.Sc., Ahfad University, Sudan<br />
Career:<br />
–Assistant Professor, American University of Beirut, Lebanon, 1962–64.<br />
–Visiting Professor and Head of the Department of Psychology, University of Jordan, 1965.<br />
–Appointed Reader in Psychology in the Department of Psychology and Education and Director of Counseling and Guidance Unit, Omdurman Islamic University, Sudan, 1967–71.<br />
–Promoted to Full Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychology and appointed Director of the Psychological Clinic, University of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 1971–73 and 1974–77.<br />
–Appointed UNESCO Expert in Psychology, Academy of Pedagogy, Bahar Dar, Ethiopia, 1973–74.<br />
–Appointed Dean of the Faculty of Education of the University of Khartoum and Head of the Department of Applied Psychology, 1977–80.<br />
–Appointed Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychology and senior clinical psychologist in the Medical Clinic of Imam Mohamad bin Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 1981–82 and 1984–85.<br />
–Appointed Dean of the Faculty Education and acting Vice Chancellor, University of Juba, Southern Sudan (on secondment from the University of Mohamad bin Saud), 1983–84.<br />
–Re–appointed professor of Psychology, Department of Psychology, University of Khartoum, Sudan, 1985–92.<br />
–During the academic years 1986–89 I was asked to establish the Faculties of Islamic Studies and Education in the International African University, Khartoum, and to serve as Dean to these two Faculties besides my job as professor in the University of Khartoum.<br />
–Joined the Department of Psychology of the International Islamic University, Malaysia, in June 1992 and served as professor of psychology until July 1994.<br />
-Appointed professor of psychology in the International Institute of Islamic Thought and Civilization in July 1994, a postgraduate Institute affiliated with the International Islamic University.</p>
<p>Here is an answer Dr. Badri gave on this topic:</p>
<p>&#8220;This issue is now being discussed in various psychological circles in the Islamic and Western world. A few years ago, the idea of a spiritual being possessing a human being was completely rejected by western psychologist as a form of superstitious beliefs carried over from the Middle Ages. More recently, as science matured and felt secure it began to re look into the possibility of the influence of such beings on humans. Chief among the modern psychiatrist and thinkers who discussed the possibility of spirit possession is Dr. M. Scott Peck the author of &#8220;The Road Less Traveled&#8221;. In one of his books he mentions that he has personally attended to cases of spirit possession in which the patient were cured after exorcism in a vary short time that does not happen in psychiatric treatment. Among Muslim psychologists there is an active group who have internet site headed by Dr. Mona Amer in which they have long discussions and evidences on this matter.</p>
<p>During the 1980&#8242;s I was elected as a member of the World Health Organization committee (WHO) on traditional medical practices. In one meeting in Geneva we listened to doctors and researchers who delivered a number of papers in which they documented the dramatic improvement of patients in Africa and Asia who were treated by religiously oriented healers who practiced exorcism. My own research was on the traditional healing in Ethiopia and Sudan. I have also reported on similar cases.</p>
<p>In general those who are considered as possessed are those who are diagnosed by psychiatrists as suffering from schizophrenia and mania. The term schizophrenia is a very ambiguous term and psychiatrists give this label to any body exhibits the symptoms of delusions or false beliefs or who suffers from hallucinations in which he/she sees things that are not there or hears voices from invisible beings. In my study I listened to Muslim healers who strongly criticize this broad classification of mental illness. They say that to consider anybody schizophrenic only because he/she sees things and hears voices, is like a doctor who says that all patients who have fevers, headaches, and nausea are suffering from malaria. Since a high fever and headache can be caused by so many illnesses to stick to one diagnoses is not scientific. The same applies, as these healers argue, to the concept of schizophrenia. To be deluded and to hallucinate can be caused by a physical-biochemical imbalance in the brain or by a spirit possession or by alcoholic poisoning or some other reasons. The traditional healers also claim that the only evidence for the bio-chemical theory of schizophrenia is that patients improve when they are given the prescribed drug, but at least 25% or more of them do not improve and they become permanently kept in mental hospitals as chronic schizophrenics. These healers argue that if improvement is the evidence, then they have a number of cases of chronic schizophrenics who responded to their therapy in a much shorter time.</p>
<p>From this, we Muslims should not discard the possibility of Jinn possession. We have in the traditions of our prophet (pbuh) and the biography of early Muslim physicians much evidences to the value of reading the Quran and using its verses as therapy and a form of exorcism. We should be open minded in accepting the physical as well as the spiritual aspects of human nature. In May 2001 a very interesting conference was held in Dammam, Saudi Arabia in which psychiatrists and well-known traditional muslim healers discussed the value of Ruqaiyyah (prayer for therapeutic purposes as well as exorcism of Jinn possession). I took part in this conference and I was happy to see western trained Arab psychiatrists accepting the possibility of Jinn possession and showing their readiness to cooperate with Muslim healers by referring to them those who do not benefit from their modern psychiatric therapy.</p>
<p>It is very important for those who accept exorcism not to treat those possessed as sinful or deviant persons. Just as the body may develop a disorder, the soul can also be disordered. Both are a form of Ibtila (Trial) or test.&#8221;</p>
<p>My apology for the long post. I believe it is important to first understand this issue from another perspective before passing judgment. </p>
<p>Please let me know if you wish for me to continue and then I can share my own views.</p>
<p>Regards and goodnight.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15306</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15306</guid>
		<description>I do think religion--no matter which one--can help some people out of mental jams they&#039;re in. I don&#039;t think it a universal cure and I think it is far too open to abuse and exploitation to be considered reliable, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think religion&#8211;no matter which one&#8211;can help some people out of mental jams they&#8217;re in. I don&#8217;t think it a universal cure and I think it is far too open to abuse and exploitation to be considered reliable, however.</p>
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		<title>By: Sparky</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2008/09/01/faith-healing-saudi-style/comment-page-1/#comment-15304</link>
		<dc:creator>Sparky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/?p=5284#comment-15304</guid>
		<description>A lot of those satanic aspects are actually mental and can be cured by seeing a psychiatrist or with medication. IMO just calling it Satanic can worsen it in many cases. 

A lot of it is mental intrusions call them Satan or call them purely evil influences whatever the name I doubt that listening to the Quran is going to make them any better. It probably will actually worsen them by making the person believe they are battling Satan. Satan is a mightly foe to take on single handedly (wink, wink) Some can do it others cannot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of those satanic aspects are actually mental and can be cured by seeing a psychiatrist or with medication. IMO just calling it Satanic can worsen it in many cases. </p>
<p>A lot of it is mental intrusions call them Satan or call them purely evil influences whatever the name I doubt that listening to the Quran is going to make them any better. It probably will actually worsen them by making the person believe they are battling Satan. Satan is a mightly foe to take on single handedly (wink, wink) Some can do it others cannot!</p>
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