Arab News reports about a clash between the Saudi Ministry of Higher Education and the Human Rights Commission over the issue of requiring female students receiving scholarships to foreign countries to have a mahram, guardian, travel with them. The added expense and layers of complication make it impossible for many women to accept these Saudi government scholarships. The Human Rights Commission is asking the Council of Ministers to instead permit guardians to issue letters granting the women permission to travel and live abroad.
The Ministry of Higher Education is sticking to its guns in requiring the physical presence of a mahram, acting I believe, in fear of social backlash and condemnation for putting the women at moral risk. The Human Rights Commission, conversely, sees the women as adults and capable of leading their lives according to the moral values in which they were raised. It will be interesting to see how the Council of Ministers (which more or less plays the role of the Cabinet) decides to deal with the issue.
Stalemate on ‘mahram’ condition continues
Najah Alosaimi | Arab NewsRIYADH: Manal Al-Quais, a 23-year-old Saudi, won a scholarship from the King Abdullah Scholarship Program to study nursing in Canada. There’s only one problem: She can’t find a close male relative to go with her for the entire duration of the study; they have their own families and responsibilities to attend to.
Recently, two key governmental departments have initiated a debate on how women in Manal’s situation can take advantage of Saudi Arabia’s national scholarship program.
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Of note, this is one of the few times the Saudi media reports on conflicts between two government agencies.
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July:28:2008 - 15:37
John,
You are aware that the “requirement” is a requirement in word only right? I know more than a few women who were/are here in the USA on the Saudi scholarship without a mehram. As a matter of fact, the practice is SO common that there is even a seperate rate of payment for women here in the USA with a mehram as opposed to those without it. The difference is about $1,000 a month.
Some forget about the money completely, others just have a brother, uncle or father jet in for vacation, hence their mehram was “here”. Many women on the scholarship do this.
I know my wife and her two sisters were on the scholarship with no mehram and it was never issue an issue. They could have used the extra thouand dollars a month, but they made due with the over one thousand dollars an unaccompanied woman gets. My wife got additional money because she had children.
The Ministry of Higher Education, as represented by the Cultural Ministry here in the DC area, is well aware of the fact that this is common place. They choose to ignore it in most cases. My question would be why did they make it an issue in this case when it is usually ignored?
Think about it, do a check on how many single Saudi women are here in the scholarship. You think their uncles, brothers, fathers quit their jobs and stop their lives to come to the US and sit around whilst their daughters or sisters study?
I would venture to say that the majority of single Saudi women here on scholarship do not have a full time mehram here with them. The majority of ones listed with the Cultural Mission as having a mehram have a “fly in” mehram, not someone living with them 24 hours a day.
Saudi women who marry abroad without the permission of the Embassy are supposed to loose their scholarships as well. Two daughters of the Saudi Culture Minister at the time attended our wedding, so their father was very aware we were married, yet the scholarship continued for another year and a half. His wife even visited us and my MIL after the wedding.
These rules are there to be ignored, as shown by the actions of the people involved.
The big question is what did this girl do, or what is “wrong” with her family that she is being held to rules that are usually ignored?
July:28:2008 - 16:10
y do saudi females need a mahrem 2 travel abroad??? i know its a requirement by saudi law, but what is da need for this ridiculous law? I think its more becuz most saudi men r insecure in their minds and assume that their women will jump into bed with another man as soon as they depart da kingdom. otherwise i dont really understand da rationality of this ridiculous law.
July:28:2008 - 16:44
I’m well aware that this regulation is observed in the breach more often than not. It’s indeed a common practice for a male relative to accompany the female student to the US while she gets established at her school and apartment and gets all the paperwork sorted out at the embassy. And then the mahram goes home.
I think its an asinine regulation that exists solely to provide cover for the Min. Higher Ed. when people accuse it of promoting the ‘debasement’ of Saudi women. Then the Ministry can say, ‘No! See, we require the families to protect their honor. If there’s a problem, it’s not with us!’
As to why this girl, in this case is being held apparently to the letter of the regulations… Who knows? Did the Ministry see a need to make a point to deflect complaints? Is the woman’s family ‘notorious’ somehow?
July:28:2008 - 17:00
The fact is many of the laws in the country are made to satisfy the religious groups in the country. Most men that want the women in their families to earn a scholarship are open minded otherwise they won’t let them apply for the scholarship to begin with. If you agree for your daughter, sister or wife to study abroad you are most likely a person that accepts that she is capable to study, work and excel. What is sad is that these laws require a male permission to travel and even apply for the scholarship. There are many issues in Saudi around women rights.
Finally, yes there are men that are insecure in Saudi, but it is unlikely that this specific group of men have this issue. Not every discussion has to be focused on a narrow view of sexual relations.
July:28:2008 - 22:33
I do think Zani has a point: It’s not that Saudi women are particularly loose, it’s that Saudi men fear for the worst. Those who are insecure will not let the women of their family travel on their own under any circumstance. Those who are secure in themselves and in the way they raise their children, trust their daughters to behave correctly, no matter the circumstance.
July:29:2008 - 00:33
John,
I think when it comes to Saudi families there are a set of issues with allowing women free travel that are more complex than the trust around sexual interaction. Unfortunately these are also as negative and are degrading of women’s ability. They include:
- The opinion that women can not manage their life. These include worries about security, ability to manage contracting for apartments, transportation, even making transit flights, etc. Sadly many men and families think young women are just not capable.
- The idea that women are easily fooled and can be taken advantage of. Obviously whether man or a woman, being scammed is really dependent on experiences in life and how naive a person is. I think Saudi females do have this problem more than men, not because they are females but because they were not given opportunities to acquire experiences.
- Social pressures: in many cases in Saudi, the fear of what other people may say about letting a daughter live on her own in a different country is more of an issue than trusting her ability to pull it off. Perceptions can be as important as facts when it comes to honor in Saudi.
- Of course there is the trust issue that women may become loose. I agree this is an issue for some men and some families. However, I do think it depends on which province, the type of education level of the family, their exposure to foreign countries, etc. Many people in Saudi will not even contemplate thinking their female relative is loose (it is just too shameful in Saudi mentality to even have such thoughts), it is the idea that a female may be taken advantage of that drives such controls.
I just wanted to broaden the concept to its proper complexity than just focusing on the idea of Saudi’s thinking their women are loose, because I do not think that is the case in most circumstances.
July:29:2008 - 01:08
Your first and second points are not [typo] specific to Saudis… lots of cultures did or still do feel that way. But they are, of course, true of Saudi expectations of Saudi women.
The third is also not strictly Saudi, either. I hear the same things from people whose daughters are about to go off to university in another US state. I try to explain that if you didn’t get the ‘raising your child with the right values’ thing done by the time she’s 18, you might as well just reconcile yourself to prayer. Whether it’s honor or just wanting the child to be safe (and, of course, moral), it’s not uncommon.
The fourth point is more pointedly Saudi, but also pan-Arab, Indian, Pakistani, etc. Saudi men seem to think that since they would jump on anything wearing a skirt, then all men would do so, therefore their womenfolk could not conceivably be ‘safe’ around unrelated men. That, to me, suggest a sort of retarded development, a locked-in adolescence where everything female must be sexualized to a rather high degree. But I’m not a psychologist and probably should play one on a blog…
July:29:2008 - 01:37
I agree that the first 3 issues are common with other cultures, but in Saudi they are taken to an extreme where women are controlled. We have a lot of work to do on all issues relating to women freedoms.
July:29:2008 - 08:59
Good points “Saudi in US”.
We also need to keep in mind that the Embassy and the Cultural Missions in each of these countries employs spies to try and catch Saudis abroad in bad situations and will send them home if found so.
They employ people who keep an eye on things like Facebook, Myspace and regularly field tips from other Saudis as to the immoral conduct of students and use this information to revoke the scholarship from them.
In my intereaction with Saudis it is clear that many men will keep certain things completely off limits to the females of their family. Finances is a big part of that. I am sure there are many reasons for this, but more often than not purposely keeping them in the dark as to how things operate in day to day life is one of them.
September:28:2008 - 10:21
Hi, I am a Saudi female looking to get a gov scholarship to study in the states, but am having difficulty with the Ministry of Education’s website. Can anyone brief on the procedures and requirements? For example documentation/do I need a university acceptance before getting the scholarship.
October:06:2008 - 03:34
I don’t know when this human right thing leaves us alone and see what is happening in georgia Russia, or in Palistain …
I am a female, and I have a scholar ship from my country to the us. I know that we suffer from nothing seeing what women suffer her. We are have everything. And everyone knows that. We don’t want any defense
Why choosing Saudi Arabia … were’r safe .. we have every thing
This maharm thing is a religious thing … so what do you want form us …leave us alone we are happy without you generous help..
Why don’t you develop you cross-cultural understanding and respect other people boundaries and culture.
October:06:2008 - 09:09
Amal what male mahram of yours is willing to forget about his life and job and whatever else and escort you to the US? All you need technically is a male relative to travel with you. Islamically, it isn’t required for a mahran to babysit you while you while you are there.
I suggest you go learn about your own religion…and GROW UP before you ask us to learn how to respect other people’s cultures.
I sure hope you find a male mahram who will babysit you while you are there unless he gets a scholarship too or is studying, I cannot see how or why he would sacrifice for you while the males are the ones supposed to be the providers of the family and his role is indeed the one with a higher degree of responsibility.