I do not blame Saudi Arabia (it’s government, institutions, etc.) for causing 9/11. I do claim that the government and institutions were intellectually lazy, never thinking of the consequences of what it was teaching in its schools, never thinking of the consequences of the tendency toward takfir it was permitting in its mosques. The results of that laziness and inattention were 9/11 and the Al-Qaeda war in the KSA since 2003 (arguably, since the 1990s).

On the 9/11 ‘Truthers’: just because a lot of people think something does not make it a fact. There have been debunkings of the various conspiracy theories (a good one is this, from Popular Science magazine). But as I’m sure you’re aware, some people simply want to believe something and cannot be convinced otherwise. For me, I’ve given up trying to argue the point. For the conspiracists, it’s become a matter of faith and faith is not amenable to rational argument.

Your citing Roberts and the Amish school is not exactly pertinent to the discussion. He’s deemed to have been mentally ill, not an allegation leveled against Khalid Sheikh Mohammad and his Saudi recruits. Some people are just mentally ill and the horrors they commit (as the Syrian who decapitated his nephew in a Saudi market a few months ago) are seen as the result of that illness.

Timothy McVeigh is a bit more germane. His motivation was political, not exactly religious, but as a result of his act the entire ‘militia’ movement in the US came in for both enhanced scrutiny and legal prosecution. It pretty much spelled the end of the White supremacists as a potent force in the US.

In fact, it’s pretty much the same as has happened with ‘AQ in the Arabian Peninsula’ in the Kingdom. Investigations and prosecution continue in both countries.

I think it is unfortunate that you were not able to get your Visa to visit a sick relative. However, you need to put this in prospective. 911 does matter in a big way in the US. It was the biggest terrorist act in history and it was executed by mostly Saudi’s and by an organization lead by a Saudi. The issues do not stop there either. Saudi is also exporting Jihadists to many places and was and to a smaller degree a source for financing terrorist organization. I know the Saudi government is doing a lot to fix these problems, but we took our eyes of the ball for so long that these extremists gave the country a black eye. It is something we have to live with until we fix the situation and build back the reputation of the country.

Additionally, a country like the US who would like to screen visa applicants cannot have confidence on the goverment and financial organizations that produce the documents required for the screening. The systems are corrupt enough where a person with a decent wasta can produce any document needed. This makes it hard to make consistent decision and may result in people being rejected unjustifiably.

I also want you to consider the severity of some of these attacks with an example. There are recent calls in Bahrain to stop all Visa’s for Bengali workers, because of 2 murders committed by workers from that country. In comparison, 911 produced about 3000 dead and destroyed important country symbols. Any nation will be very concerned after such attack and may install even more restrictions than the US does on citizens of foreign countries.

Finally, Sparky brought up a good point. Saudi Arabia is one of the most restrictive countries in the world. We have issues even issuing visa’s for spouses of Saudi citizens. I am not talking just in the cases of conflicts, I am referring to cases where the married couple have to apply for acceptance and wait years for acceptance. The cases that Sparky mentioned where mothers are not allowed Visas to see their children are very common. These cases are much more concerning from a humanitarian prospective than your case. Imagine a child not seeing his/her mother for life.

I know acquiring US visas is not the best process. However, I think the US is acting within reason given the circumstances and the difficulty of collecting information on applicants. It protects American citizens and at the same time may even save Saudi from a major embarrassment of having another attack occur.

Dr. Matrouk al-Faleh had been acting as legal representative for the brothers Isaa and Dr Abdullah al-Hamid (For further information see previous UA AI Index: MDE 23/009/2008, 6 March 2008,and UA update,
UA 62/08, 11 March 2008, AI Index: MDE 23/10/2008). The brothers are serving prison sentences of six and four months’ respectively. They were found guilty of “incitement to protest”, charges that were brought against them after they supported and took part in a peaceful demonstration outside Buraida prison, north of Riyadh, by women relatives of political detainees held at the prison. The demonstrators called for their relatives to be charged and given fair trials, or else released.

The Saudi Arabian authorities have not disclosed publicly the reason for Dr. Matrouk al-Faleh’s arrest but it may be connected to the publication on 17 May of an article he wrote following his visit to al- Buraida prison in which he referred to Dr Abdullah and Issa al-Hamid, and criticised their harsh and overcrowded prison conditions.

Dr. Matrouk al-Faleh was previously arrested in March 2004 after
calling for political reform, and was sentenced to six years
imprisonment in May 2005 on charges that included “sowing dissent
and disobeying the ruler.” He was released after being granted a
royal pardon by King Abdullah on 8 August 2005. Since his release he
has not been permitted to travel abroad.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

Human rights activists and critics of the state are subject to gross
violations of their rights at the hands of the various security
forces under the control of the Ministry of Interior. They are often
held incommunicado without charge or trial, denied access to lawyers
and the courts to challenge the legality of their detention, and
tortured. Trials fall far short of international standards for fair
trial: defendants are generally denied legal counsel, and in many
cases they and their families are not informed of the progress of
legal proceedings against them. Court hearings are often held behind
closed doors.

The Saudi Arabian authorities regularly hold detainees
incommunicado, at which time they are at risk of being tortured and
otherwise ill-treated. Critics of the state are routinely detained
indefinitely without charge or trial. Defendants are often denied
the right to formal representation by a lawyer and in many cases
they and their families are not informed of the progress of legal
proceedings against them. Due to the high level of secrecy of the
Saudi Arabian justice system, trials are invariably held behind
closed doors. In the rare instances when individuals are charged and
brought to trial, the proceedings invariably fail to meet the most
elementary standards of fairness.

RECOMMENDED ACTION: Please send appeals to arrive as quickly as
possible, in Arabic or English or your own language:
- expressing concern that Dr. Matrouk al-Faleh is being held
incommunicado, where he is at risk of torture or other ill-treatment;

- seeking assurances from the authorities that he is protected from
torture and other ill-treatment;

- calling for him to be given regular access to his family, lawyers
of his choice and any medical attention he may require;

- calling for his immediate and unconditional release if he is being
held solely for his human rights work.

APPEALS TO:
His Majesty King Abdullah Bin `Abdul `Aziz Al-Saud

The Custodian of the two Holy Mosques

Office of His Majesty The King

Royal Court

Riyadh

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Salutation: Your Majesty

His Royal Highness Prince Naif bin `Abdul `Aziz Al-Saud

Minister of the Interior

Ministry of the Interior

P.O. Box 2933

Airport Road

Riyadh 11134

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Fax: +966 1 403 1185

+966 1 403 3614

Salutation: Your Royal Highness

His Royal Highness Prince Saud al-Faisal bin `Abdul `Aziz Al-Saud

Minister of Foreign Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Nasseriya Street

Riyadh 11124

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Fax: +966 1 403 0645

Salutation: Your Royal Highness

COPIES TO:

Mr Turki bin Khaled Al-Sudairy

The President

The Human Rights Commission

PO Box 58889, Riyadh 11515

King Fahad Road

Building No.373

Riyadh

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Fax: +966 1 4612061

and to diplomatic representatives of Saudi Arabia accredited to your
country.

PLEASE SEND APPEALS IMMEDIATELY. Check with the International
Secretariat, or your section office, if sending appeals after 1 July
2008

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE23/023/2008/en/4398884d-
26a2-11dd-b995-f7269e5ea55f/mde230232008eng.html

__._,_.___

Fortunately being a US citizen the U.S. embassy has power and because we have strong ties with Saudi government the U.S. embassy would help U.S. citizens set up such visits and so forth.

Unfortunately other countries like Indonesia or Singapore or a long list of other countries are ignored and denied.

Solomon;

I didn’t say theres no right to protect citizen
and I didn’t mention American socity as responsible
I admet I said in thier collge in US but not society

and john mention that Saudi citizens used to be the best visa candidates and they came hone when the purpose of thier visit done

which mean we are not looking to come to US for working like many peope from another counties if in Middle East, Asia, Africa or Europ or south America.

our country just like yours, all wanted to come to for work
and we been through attacked by terrorism too

but extremly not true that Saudi society share responsibility for formating thier minds.

like we can’t say American society responsible of what some people did in America like:

Charles Carl Roberts and what he did in the Amish school
or Robert Hawkins in Omaha Nebraska mall
or what Timothy Mcveigh did or Terry Lynn Nichols or John williams, theres many more examples and you already know it.

but not me not you nor anyone else can say its our society responsibility for what they did.

and for the other ponits you hae said I agree with you

back to you John

maybe it seems crazy thinking to you, only if it was me who said that but that came from american people and they said it loudly through thier sites, media web page etc.

as example check these links :

h**p://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/070906insidejob.htm
h**p://www.wanttoknow.info/050908insidejob911
h**p://www.fight4truth.com/911truth.htm
h**p://miami.indymedia.org/news/2006/05/4529_comment.php
h**p://www.911sharethetruth.com
h**p://911review.org/Wiki/InsideJob.shtml

if you google it more you would get millions

and if 9/11 could let all think what happen to Saudi and made all that rules, thats still not fair we can’t judge whole country because of 15 or 100 or even thousen of them was bad people, or you should think again about japanese after Pearl Harbor, we all can keep tell eachothers many things.

but we all still need to seek for the trueth and need to be one team against the evils dosen’t matter were we from or what nation as long as we believe strongly in good (well-being)

and thaks for your kind to think Saudis are great people , so you are

sure you know that we have lots friends work and live here among of us in Riyadh and they are Americans and they think and feel just like you about us mabye more