Comments on: On the Case of ‘Qatif Girl’

By: Jochen Stacker

Jochen Stacker — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:16:34 +0000

There should be an obligation on the world as a whole not to stand idly by whilst such atrocities are carried out. Countries so savage and primitive should not be allowed to carry on with their systematic violation of human rights. Their government should be disbanded, imprisoned, exiled or shot and the country placed under emergency ruling by an independent body. The same happened to my country. When Hitler engulfed the world with war and tried to wipe out an entire people he was stopped. It is only a shame it took so long and cost so many lives. The world has learned nothing from this. Sadly the UN is totally useless and a sham. The USA only cares for oil and certainly needs a warning shot across the bow themselves. The world needs a governing body that has the power to step in anywhere and prevent savage, primitive people from walking all over human rights. Just calling it “tradition” and “religion” is no excuse ever for injustice, torture and murder.
I don’t care for “Eastern”, “Western” and other tags that people need as crutches to distinguish between groups of people. I don’t care about religion, state ideologies or the decor in the governing buildings. Such concepts are primitive and only detract from the true fact: There are only people and there’s only right and wrong. Most people are not yet ready for this and have to hold on to their archaic notions of “my god is bigger than yours” and other made up superstitions.

By: John Burgess

John Burgess — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:31:50 +0000

I think most reading this blog agree that the laws need to be changed. What we think, however, is immaterial. What counts is what the Saudis think.

Luckily, this verdict has shocked most Saudis.

By: San

San — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:51:17 +0000

I carried a blog “Attrocities against Women” after reading the news about this gory sentence … more than 95%, who read my blog, polled that they were aghast with the strange nature of justice system prevailing in Saudi Arabia.

I believe such primitive laws should be changed and women in the 21st century should be given the dignity and liberty at par with men.

By: John Burgess

John Burgess — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:07:55 +0000

I do make those distinctions. It’s Saudi courts that seem unable to do so, as you note. Disentangling tradition and culture from religion is a formidable task.

By: al-waleed

al-waleed — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:32:00 +0000

May I make two comments on the para above: “Second, Saudi courts are, by definition, religious courts: they take the Quran, Hadith, and Sunna as the sole sources of law. This verdict seriously damages claims that God is merciful.”

First, what humans do have no bearing on God’s mercy. This is true of any religion. It only shows what humans are capable of doing.

Second, it is true that “Saudi courts are, by definition, religious courts: they take the Quran, Hadith, and Sunna as the sole sources of law.” However, the way they interpret it makes it, often, pure Saudi law, which may be quite different from what the law would be in another Muslim country also applying the Quran, Hadith and Sunna as its sole sources of law.

So, it would be appropriate to distinguish between religion and what people do, in terms of law, whether in Saudi Arabia or in other countries.

By: John Burgess

John Burgess — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:13:54 +0000

I’d reserve that judgment until after the justice system has completed its run. There are several layers of appeals ahead.

By: funnyman

funnyman — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:01:30 +0000

yet again its proven beyond doubt …..in the land of islam , the holiest place for islamic beliefs …. you cannot ask for justice … for their thinking is still lingering in the stone age …what a sham ??????

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:13:15 +0000

And now I must also clarify the above:

In fact, the Higher Court of Justice did rule and did issue sterner sentences. Amazing that Arab News is right on this while the reast of the media world is wrong (they all say the Qatif Court issues both rulings).

This is relevant because nobody in the foreign media seems to be doing a decent job explaining just how this judicial process took place.

The rest of my comments above are correct. The appeals process begins now at the Court of Cassation. Before that, al-Lahem has petitioned the Higher Court to review the lower court’s ruling.

This stuff is confusing, but interesting to watch.

By: anonymous

anonymous — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:18:32 +0000

I just want to make a clarification on your comments:

The Qatif Girl did not appeal the verdict until Saturday. Any appeal is referred to the Saudi Court of Cassation. This is what’s happening now.

What happened, as far as I can tell:

- Qatif Court gave 1st sentences to girl and the rapists (and let’s not forget that her companion who was also raped was also sentenced);

- Qatif Girl’s LAWYER (Al-Lahem) asks the Higher Court (the Saudi “Supreme Court”) to review the Qatif Court’s ruling on the basis that the rapists were given lenient sentences;

- The Higher Court orders a re-trial in the Qatif Court;

- Qatif Court re-tries the case, increases sentences for all, and revokes Al-Lahem’s license to practice law;

- On Saturday, Qatif Girl requests an appeal to the Court of Cassation;

- The appeal is expected to be filed by next Saturday followed by a 2-3 week trial; and

- Her companion, fearing another increase in his sentence, declines to appeal.

By: Rasheed Abou-Alsamh

Rasheed Abou-Alsamh — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:39:02 +0000

Hi John,

I wrote a story about this in the New York Times on Friday (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/world/middleeast/16saudi.html?ref=world)and was quoted in The Guardian on Saturday (http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,,2212583,00.html)saying that I thought at least some of the more conservative Saudis would agree with Qatif girl getting lashed for being alone with an unrelated male.

I talked to Ebtihal about the case and she told me that Qatif girl did not report her multiple rape until four months after it happened probably due to shock and shame. This is perhaps why her rapists are getting relatively lenient sentences.

Also, everyone I’ve talked to has denied that the rapists were Sunni and the victims Shiite. According to these sources all involved were Shiite. I don’t know how this sectarian twist got added to the story, but I first say it in an AFP story on the case.