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	<title>Comments on: Saudi Arabia Continuing Legal Reform</title>
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	<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/</link>
	<description>Informed comment and commentary about Saudi Arabia, reform, and its relations with the US</description>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4537</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4537</guid>
		<description>Both your points, I think, are right on target. 

One of the more remarkable things that King Abdullah has accomplished is to limit the powers of his successors, whether in the new succession laws or the new judicial system. Both do grant more power more broadly. He is reducing the power of the monarch deliberately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both your points, I think, are right on target. </p>
<p>One of the more remarkable things that King Abdullah has accomplished is to limit the powers of his successors, whether in the new succession laws or the new judicial system. Both do grant more power more broadly. He is reducing the power of the monarch deliberately.</p>
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		<title>By: Saudi in the US</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4534</link>
		<dc:creator>Saudi in the US</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 03:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4534</guid>
		<description>John,

I think post number 10 was meant to spam and promote the site offered in the link not to add value to the discussion.

On another topic, the more I read and think about this new reform the more I like it. There are 2 thoughts I want to add. 1) The new Supreme Court will replace the ultra conservative Supreme Judicial Council (which will be relegated to administrative duties). This can be used to lessen the powers of conservatives in one quick action. 2) Like US presidents leaving a legacy beyond their presidency by appointing Supreme Court Justices, King Abdulah can extend his influence beyond his ruling period. Since, he has been the most reform minded king so far, that may be real good for the future. 

It will be interesting to see the make up of the supreme court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I think post number 10 was meant to spam and promote the site offered in the link not to add value to the discussion.</p>
<p>On another topic, the more I read and think about this new reform the more I like it. There are 2 thoughts I want to add. 1) The new Supreme Court will replace the ultra conservative Supreme Judicial Council (which will be relegated to administrative duties). This can be used to lessen the powers of conservatives in one quick action. 2) Like US presidents leaving a legacy beyond their presidency by appointing Supreme Court Justices, King Abdulah can extend his influence beyond his ruling period. Since, he has been the most reform minded king so far, that may be real good for the future. </p>
<p>It will be interesting to see the make up of the supreme court.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4493</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4493</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m willing to entertain the idea that this could be a disaster, but for the life of me I can&#039;t see how.

Could you expand on that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m willing to entertain the idea that this could be a disaster, but for the life of me I can&#8217;t see how.</p>
<p>Could you expand on that?</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4492</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4492</guid>
		<description>A kingdom with laws. I wonder if this is the first step towards a middle eastern democracy or disaster?

Join the global debate on democracy at www.whydemocracy.net.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A kingdom with laws. I wonder if this is the first step towards a middle eastern democracy or disaster?</p>
<p>Join the global debate on democracy at <a href="http://www.whydemocracy.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.whydemocracy.net</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4457</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4457</guid>
		<description>I agree with Saudi in the US: form itself will produce change. Laws are not only the product of great law-makers, they are the emergent result of particular structures, the consequences of structure.

They will lead, as Saudi says, to precedents that will be built upon in their own sets of consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Saudi in the US: form itself will produce change. Laws are not only the product of great law-makers, they are the emergent result of particular structures, the consequences of structure.</p>
<p>They will lead, as Saudi says, to precedents that will be built upon in their own sets of consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Solomon2</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4456</link>
		<dc:creator>Solomon2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4456</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s keep in mind that the &quot;system&quot; doesn&#039;t codify new or existing laws: great scholars do, or at least able bureaucrats.  Is the KSA really up to the challenge?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s keep in mind that the &#8220;system&#8221; doesn&#8217;t codify new or existing laws: great scholars do, or at least able bureaucrats.  Is the KSA really up to the challenge?</p>
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		<title>By: Saudi in the US</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4455</link>
		<dc:creator>Saudi in the US</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4455</guid>
		<description>John,

Just a follow-up on your last comment. I think even without a written set of law. The concept of structuring the courts will introduce precedence in rulings from higher courts over time. This by itself is of high value.

The other advantage I see is that the specialized court structure at the lower level will allow the codification to move faster in certain areas of the law once that process begins.

I know that these new reforms will not solve all of the issues of the Saudi judicial system. However, it is a big step. I am really looking forward to see the details of how this will work over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Just a follow-up on your last comment. I think even without a written set of law. The concept of structuring the courts will introduce precedence in rulings from higher courts over time. This by itself is of high value.</p>
<p>The other advantage I see is that the specialized court structure at the lower level will allow the codification to move faster in certain areas of the law once that process begins.</p>
<p>I know that these new reforms will not solve all of the issues of the Saudi judicial system. However, it is a big step. I am really looking forward to see the details of how this will work over time.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4452</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4452</guid>
		<description>Your second question is exactly why the formation of these courts is a big deal, IMO. It forces the system to codify laws that have been, up &#039;til now, purely in the purview of individual judges. 

The process of codification will be a mess for a while. But it will be an organic mess, grown from within the Saudi system and thus having a large amount of buy-in by the Saudi publics. Even if the King could simply say, &quot;Here are the laws: Enforce them,&quot; it would be counterproductive to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your second question is exactly why the formation of these courts is a big deal, IMO. It forces the system to codify laws that have been, up &#8217;til now, purely in the purview of individual judges. </p>
<p>The process of codification will be a mess for a while. But it will be an organic mess, grown from within the Saudi system and thus having a large amount of buy-in by the Saudi publics. Even if the King could simply say, &#8220;Here are the laws: Enforce them,&#8221; it would be counterproductive to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: AbuSinan</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4449</link>
		<dc:creator>AbuSinan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4449</guid>
		<description>I agree with you there John.  I rather like the appointment process that is tied to a elected representitives.  I also like that bar some extreme circumstances, that judges like those on the Supreme Court cannot be removed.

  Once a judge knows they are in for life they are free to rule as they see fit, not at the whims of the electorate or those who appointed them.

  My next question is since very little of what passes for law in Saudi is actually written government ordinance, versus religious law, from what code of regulations/laws are these judges going to make their rulings?  If they are just going to continue down the same road with religious law and tribal law acting as the template, I dont see how this will change anything.

  As religious ideas and rulings vary widely, I dont see how this will work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you there John.  I rather like the appointment process that is tied to a elected representitives.  I also like that bar some extreme circumstances, that judges like those on the Supreme Court cannot be removed.</p>
<p>  Once a judge knows they are in for life they are free to rule as they see fit, not at the whims of the electorate or those who appointed them.</p>
<p>  My next question is since very little of what passes for law in Saudi is actually written government ordinance, versus religious law, from what code of regulations/laws are these judges going to make their rulings?  If they are just going to continue down the same road with religious law and tribal law acting as the template, I dont see how this will change anything.</p>
<p>  As religious ideas and rulings vary widely, I dont see how this will work.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-4447</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrdarabia.org/2007/10/02/saudi-arabia-continuing-legal-reform/#comment-4447</guid>
		<description>All true. As they say, &#039;the devil is in the details.&#039;

Still, by formalizing the judicial system, it makes further reforms more easily accomplished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All true. As they say, &#8216;the devil is in the details.&#8217;</p>
<p>Still, by formalizing the judicial system, it makes further reforms more easily accomplished.</p>
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