Woman to Woman Relationships at Some Schools
Hayat Kharbash, Arab News

ABHA, 21 February 2007 — In a scene that many would describe as disgusting and contrary to the religious and cultural traditions of the Kingdom, sitting intimately in a corner of a classroom at a high school in Abha is Fawziya and Uhoud — two young female “lovers.”

The two girls speak romantically and exchange kisses in a relationship that is forbidden in Islam. Fawziya is in the final year of high school. She is engaged to a man and will be getting married in summer after graduation.

“I’m not bothered what people at school say about me. I’m just looking for an emotional relationship and I found that in Uhoud,” said Fawziya, adding that having love and feeling is the key to life.

“My relationship with my family isn’t very good and I don’t get the love and attention that I should be getting from them. My family is very disconnected and there are a lot of family problems,” she said, adding that she is not paying much attention to her coming marriage. Rather she says her attention is fixed on Uhoud….

This is the first Saudi newspaper article I’ve seen on this issue, so it must be starting to break through to the public consciousness. Lesbianism has certainly been a topic of discussion among Saudis, usually in gender-segregated groups. It’s been the matter of speculation by many who comment on how Saudi morals and mores heavily penalize sexuality outside of marriage and by those who write about male homosexuality. The article quotes several scholars on the issue, but their answers all imply that homosexuality it nothing but a social construct. Western research doesn’t exactly agree. But Saudi lesbians seem to be coming out of the closet these days as Saudi weblogs like Two Dykes and a Closet make themselves known. [This site is almost certainly blocked by Saudi censors due to its sexual content. It's not 'hot girl-on-girl action', but it's pretty explicit, including its most recent post on sex dolls.]

Change is coming to Saudi Arabia, like it or not. How Saudi society choses to deal with it and what restraints government tries to impose will determine the directions these changes take.


February:20:2007 - 22:19 | Comments & Trackbacks (96) | Permalink
96 Responses to “Saudi Lesbians Coming out of the Closet”
  1. 1
    american_bedu Said:
    February:21:2007 - 05:53 

    Sadly because of the culture and strict segregation of the sexes, young men and women will turn to their best friends to explore their budding sexuality and new feelings because they do not know any different way. They will profess love and devotion to one another and mean the words they say at the time. This has been going on for decades in the Kingdom but sadly most here turn a blind eye and keep their head deep in the sand. As a result many of Saudi marriages start with an immense learning curve and challenge not the least is how ill-prepared a young Saudi male or female is for marriage. Most young Saudis relish those rare opportunities when they can ask candid life and relationship questions (usually to a trusted Westerner).

  2. 2
    Aya Said:
    February:21:2007 - 12:21 

    John, I have seen many Saudi online message boards and groups which discuss lesbian and/or gay issues, and they are, of course, blocked in the kingdom. However, I agree with you that this is the first time we see the topic discussed explicitly in a Saudi newspaper.

  3. 3
    Global Voices Online Pinged With:
    February:27:2007 - 09:21 

    [...] Our favorite couple in the Saudi blogosphere, Two Dykes and a Closet, return once more with some news; The L Word DVDs are being sold right now in Saudi. Maybe these two girls would like to know that Crossroads Arabia is, yet again, sharing a very interesting article with its readers; “Saudi Lesbians Coming out of the Closet.” [...]

  4. 4
    syed saboor Said:
    February:02:2008 - 23:20 

    First of all, all this discussion about Saudi Lesbians and Muslim homosexuals in general is irrelevant. If any part of the world has a problem with deviant abnormal sexual behavior it is the filthy corrupt West. Just watch the Jerry Springer show and you will see all the White Trash Gays and Lesbians in the world.

    This whole discussion about lesbians and gays in the Islamic world is a part of an overall conspiricy to throw dirt on Islam and Muslims. I don’t hear a word about the queer problem in Hindu India. In India there are tons of gays and lesbians, but not one word about that.

  5. 5
    John Burgess Said:
    February:03:2008 - 02:37 

    First of all, it is not irrelevant. It is an indication that Saudis are as ‘normal’ as the rest of the world, where something under 10% of humans identify themselves as homosexual.

    Some consider it a sin. Most consider it a fact of nature, unfortunate or not.

    This is not an attempt to smear Muslims–the article is taken from a mainstream Saudi paper, for crying out loud.

    If you’re uncomfortable with homosexuality, then you need to find a way to make yourself more comfortable. There are millions and millions of them, all around the globe. Except maybe in Iran, where they execute them.

  6. 6
    Sparky Said:
    February:03:2008 - 04:06 

    I wonder how many of these girls are really lesbians. I can tolerate gays and lesbians. I find they are the most real people you will find anywhere. I happen to be a lesbian magnet! I wish my children to be straight. I have straight talk with my kids. If you want to mess around sexually out of wedlock (not that I am encouraging it but just admitting it does exist).

    First choice: Self satisfaction
    Second Choice: Person of the opposite Sex
    Third Choice: None…..

    I met with an American friend and some Saudi ladies at the Steak house. My friend tells me it is her student who really likes her. So the woman (very beautiful I might add) shows me pictures of her kids and then a picture of the woman sitting next to her and says this is my most beautiful baby. I told me friend, “Uh”. and She was like “Yes”. Most Saudi Men do not know how to give the love that women need and I don’t mean sexually.

  7. 7
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 07:07 

    Here you go again. You keep on playing the same game the west always plays towards the Islamic world. I agree, there are homosexuals and lesbians in the Islamic world, but there are also alcoholics and adulterers in the Islamic world as well. Every society has its societal problems, but Islam condemns all of these activites as immoral. The problem most of you in the West have is that you have made normal what Allah all-mighty has condemned as abnormal. Your priests are for the most part homosexuals and most of your nuns are lesbians. If any religion and culture encourages same-sex perversions, it is Christianity, which for centuries has encouraged celibacy as a way of life. Islam encourages marriage and healthy sexuality between a man and a woman. And if Islam executes queers, I really see no problem with that. We have our culture and you have yours. Most of you in the West have sex outside of marriage and mostly in your teens. The problem is that you have no moral discipline in the West. You do what you want, which is why so many of us in the Islamic world revile your corrupt society.

  8. 8
    olivetheoil Said:
    February:03:2008 - 08:13 

    The problem most of you in the West have is that you have made normal what Allah all-mighty has condemned as abnormal.

    Islam is not the predominant religion of the West. You will have to come up with a more persuasive argument than that. Why should the rest of the world kow-tow to religious beliefs we do not subscribe to?

    And if Islam executes queers, I really see no problem with that.

    We see a problem. Live with it.

    We have our culture and you have yours.

    Let us be grateful for small blessings…..

    You do what you want, which is why so many of us in the Islamic world revile your corrupt society.

    Well, the non-Islamic world (and that includes a lot more than the west) is not seeking your approval. Revile away, we are unlikely to change our opinions that your views are bigoted, deeply unfair, and do not seem to have evolved in a world view beyond the 7th C.

  9. 9
    Sparky Said:
    February:03:2008 - 08:23 

    Syed Saboor

    “Every religion on the planet, and there are so many more than you are even aware of, has the potential of absolute thriving. But when you think that you must prove that you have the only one that is right—and you use your condemnation to push against the others—your condemnation separates you from your own Connection that, before your condemnation, you were finding in your own religion.” -Abraham (not the prophet, a channelled entity)

  10. 10
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 08:26 

    Bigoted views! You must be kidding me. Next thing you know, they will make sex between men and boys legal in the West. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Of course, you call anything out of the ordinary an alternative lifestyle. That is your favorite catch word for anything immoral.
    And it is not a question of the rest of the world kow-towing to Islam, but stop trying to force your corrupt Western ways on us. We don’t want your Hollywood, MTV, and all the other garbage that predominates in your societies. If anyone is trying to make anybody kow-tow to anything it is the West which is trying to do it on the Islamic world. You want to strip our women of the hijab and make them the whores that your Western women our.

  11. 11
    olivetheoil Said:
    February:03:2008 - 08:45 

    And it is not a question of the rest of the world kow-towing to Islam, but stop trying to force your corrupt Western ways on us. We don’t want your Hollywood, MTV, and all the other garbage that predominates in your societies.

    Dear Syed:
    You are writing in English, in an electronic medium developed primarily in the West, using Western technology. I have no doubt you drive cars, use western medicine, and avail yourself of the technological advances. Why use West’s corrupt developments? If you don’t want to watch Hollywood or MTV, here is a thought, turn off your TV! Or is personal responsibility a concept alien to you?

    You want to strip our women of the hijab and make them the whores that your Western women our.

    Yay for sexist bigotry! Western women = whores!

    BTW, men don’t strip us of hijabs. They know better than to enforce any dress codes. Pick your own wardrobe if you like, don’t interfere with mine.

    If not wearing a hijab makes a woman a whore, why stop at the West? Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Vietnamese, India, Sri Lankan…..

    I’d like to see you have the balls to go to China and preach that uncovered women are whores. Oh wait! You very likely won’t because, unlike the West, they wouldn’t worry about your free-speech rights before arresting you.

  12. 12
    Sparky Said:
    February:03:2008 - 09:01 

    Syed Saboor

    You are an angry person and I pray you get help!

    I wonder if Prophet Mohammad would generalize all Western women as Whores?

    Way to go…I am sure you are winning over many hearts!

  13. 13
    John Burgess Said:
    February:03:2008 - 10:22 

    Syed Saboor: It’s truly unfortunate that you don’t realize how much damage to do to Islam and Muslims with your intolerant, insulting comments. I’m very close to deleting them because they are right on the borderline of acceptable behavior for this blog.

    You speak from ignorance, though perhaps you are educated. If your comments reflect your education, then you deserve a great deal of pity and should feel real anger at your teachers. They have given you an education fit for ancient times, not the 21st C. They have also neglected to teach you the tolerance inherent in Islam.

    Among the foremost qualities of God are compassion and mercy. You apparently have neither. It is this hypocrisy in certain Muslims, including yourself, that put much of the world against the Salafists. Not only the West, but most of the Umma as well.

    I leave your comments, even though they defame Islam and Muslims, because the show just how much work Muslims have before them to fix their own world.

  14. 14
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 10:37 

    My comments fit for the ancient times. Its not a question about what is archaic or out-of-date. It is a question about what is morally sensible. And I do not speak from ignorance, I speak from experience. For I grew up in the United States, and I came to hate all the immorality that has come to pervade American society, which led me to take a fundamentalist approach to Islam, in general.
    Furthermore, I am not intolerant. I tolerate only that which is acceptable according to the Quran and the Hadeeth. I am intolerant to vice and corruption. The way the media and the West use intolerance is pretty much another way of saying that if one does not subscribe to a Western-orientated way of life they are intolerant. Well, I can say the same about the West for wagging its finger at the Islamic world for it perceives to be fanatical tendencies.

  15. 15
    John Burgess Said:
    February:03:2008 - 11:07 

    I’m sorry that you–as Sayyed Qutb–weren’t able to get your minds around the human condition.

    You say you are educated, but your comments do not display that. Rather, they indicate that you are ignorant of how the 5/6 of the world that is not Muslim, the 99% of practicing Muslims who are not Salafists, live their lives and see the world. I can tell you that they do not live their lives in a sump of sin.

    It is ‘fanatical’ to expect humans to be other than human. The Prophet Mohammed was aware of human frailty and was very, very slow to condemn others. You seem to have not much problem in doing so.

    Perhaps you’ve been studying the wrong hadith. And perhaps you should read this post or this one by a Muslim scholar.

  16. 16
    Sparky Said:
    February:03:2008 - 11:16 

    Syed Saboor

    Calling Western women whores is not morally sensible in my opinion. I once heard a woman at the embassy in Riyadh Saudi Arabi raging that the American nationality is the worse one to have in the world with her Arab accent. The embassy officials were very tolerant. I felt like I wanted to rip her passport out of her hand and tell her get another one then.

    The issue is you were raised in the U.S. and resented WHAT? Did you resent being allowed to practice your religion and a fair justice system? Do you have the American nationality? If you do then you are unworthy of it in my opinion. You should be immediately departed in my opinion if you are still there! Go to a better country then…Your parents obviously saw something beneficial in America if they raised you there.

  17. 17
    Aafke Said:
    February:03:2008 - 12:16 

    John, thanks for not deleting anything, it’s all very interesting.

    About the post: If you lock people up in a same sex enviroment, and starve them of affection, this is the result. Predictable.
    Quite something though, to read that article from in an Arabic publication!

  18. 18
    John Burgess Said:
    February:03:2008 - 12:47 

    Not only Arabic, but Saudi. doesn’t stray far from the government’s point of view.

  19. 19
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:03:2008 - 13:41 

    Sayed,

    First, you need to change your name. I do not know if it is Sayed as in happy or Sayed as in gentleman. Neither of those fit you.

    Second, your views and anger puts you at odds with the rest of the world and the rest of the Muslims. In one of your angry comments you said “we do not want your MTV” – yes we do. You may personally have chosen not to watch it, but American and local American style media enjoy huge popularity among all levels of society. Who are you to speak for our society, they made the choice. You’ve just taken a position of weakness and think screaming it with insults justifies your position. You see, you are missing an important point, people want prosper and enjoy their lives. Your kind is at the minority and you will eventually lose that loud voice of yours because it will be drowned by the majority that will find their voices soon.

    Third, You have only few choices. 1) Find a time machine and set the dial to 700. 2) Find a cave and take the small group that share your views with you. 3) Make like the Amish and live any life you choose in peace.

  20. 20
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 16:23 

    First of all, you say I lack education, and that is certainly not the case; in fact, I have a lot of education, and I am presently studying to be a P.h.D. in comparitive religions.
    Also, I want to mention a few important things. It’s common for people who don’t agree with your views to say that one lacks education. If any of you have education, you would think otherwise. In fact, most Americans are the ones who lack education, which is why the United States is involved illegally in Afghanistan and Iraq, and if the Jewish neo-cons have their way, America will be involved in Iran. Also, about locking people up in a same-sex environment, which encourages them to engage in deviant behavior. America is society filled to the brim with queers, and men and women mix freely. Explain that to me.

  21. 21
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:03:2008 - 17:05 

    Syed,

    John did not question whether you are educated or not. He questioned the quality of your education. Here is his exact quote:

    You speak from ignorance, though perhaps you are educated. If your comments reflect your education, then you deserve a great deal of pity and should feel real anger at your teachers. They have given you an education fit for ancient times, not the 21st C. They have also neglected to teach you the tolerance inherent in Islam.

    You demonstrated a lack of understanding of simple sentences and thus do not poses the analysis skills to understand complex topics such as tolerance, international relations, social progress, media impact, etc. In short no matter how many degrees you have, you are basically a simpleton that has no business being involved in a civil discussions like the ones we have here.

    By the way many here hold advanced degrees and waving yours around make you sound like you are using them as a crutch.

  22. 22
    John Burgess Said:
    February:03:2008 - 17:08 

    Syed Saboor: You’ve crossed the line between argumentation and simple insult. Thus, your comments are no longer welcome. If you tone them down, then perhaps I won’t delete them.

    You claim to be educated. Your education is a waste of time and money and I feel pity on your parents and teachers. The purpose of education is to open minds. The effort, in your case, has clearly failed.

    I hope you find happiness in your life. I also hope your life intersects that of very few others as you show a decided tendency to bring misery to those around you.

  23. 23
    Sparky Said:
    February:03:2008 - 17:12 

    Syed Saboor

    I have seen queers in Saudi Arabia in the most unsuspecting places. In America, queers just stand out more. My uncle had his own theory about Osama Bin Laden and I swear I laughed but it was food for thought. He said he heard some commentary from a serious analyst that Osama was gay (I know he has wives).

    Seriously, anyhow that explained his fanaticism…it was a result of his guilt for having such unnatural tendencies. To compensate for such overwhelming guilt felt urges, he rechannelled that energy into another direction. I am not saying he IS gay but it just makes you wonder.

    Maybe you are gay or you have had gay inclinations and are feeling guilty. That could be why you are having such strong feelings about this gay issue. Or perhaps you were violated in some way. Molestation occurs in mosques as well as churches and even in bakalas (grocery stores).

  24. 24
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 19:03 

    First of all I do not have gay inclinations. Furthermore, John said I “perhaps am educated,” which is can be construed from two different points of view. It can be either a negative or positive appraisal of one’s, in this case, intellectual aptitude, I perceived to be negative.
    I will leave with this one thought for those Muslims who are putting forward their opinions, for example, in regards to MTV. You might as well look at pornography. Islam is not a religion of convenience. Either you follow the Quran and Sunna or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

  25. 25
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 19:33 

    Actually, this is the last comment I will make. I thought what I said before was it, but I have to say this one. MTV’s founder was Murray Rothstein. Doesn’t that name sound Jewish to you.

  26. 26
    olivetheoil Said:
    February:03:2008 - 19:53 

    Doesn’t that name sound Jewish to you.

    And why exactly does that matter?

  27. 27
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:03:2008 - 19:54 

    MTV’s founder was Murray Rothstein. Doesn’t that name sound Jewish to you.

    Too funny. Here we go the conspiracy that Jews and the west are destroying Arabic culture.

    Syed, Don’t you get it? It is you and people like you that stop our progress. What is worse is that you have a built in excuse, you just blame it on others like the Jews and the west. Start looking inwards and you may find many real problems to tackle.

    Remember the 3 options I told you about. Please, pick one and disappear from civil society. Let others step in and fix the damage you have already done.

  28. 28
    syed saboor Said:
    February:03:2008 - 21:51 

    My saudi friend, why don’t you disappear from civil society. It is of no coincidence that you as a Saudi would take the side of the West, because unlike the patriotic Iranians, you Saudis are all slave of the Americans.

    NOTE: This is the last comment you’ll be seeing from Mr. Saboor. He has crossed the very generous line I draw on abusive comments. His name is going into the ‘blocked’ bucket.

  29. 29
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:03:2008 - 22:05 

    No one has tried to enslave me except close mined people. What is patriotic is first knowing your enemy. I am a human and a Saudi. People like you are enemies to both.

  30. 30
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:03:2008 - 22:18 

    syed, By the way if you are not a Saudi, what makes you an expert in homosexual issues in Saudi?

    Another thing you need to realize is that you showed every form of bigotry in your posts: gender, sexual preference, intellectual, national, race and religion. You just hate everyone don’t you?

  31. 31
    Sparky Said:
    February:03:2008 - 23:03 

    Mr. Syed

    I do not wish to see your comments blocked personally. However, with your feelings towards MTV. Is it possible that I can still watch T.V. and be a Muslim or perhaps a sinning Muslim or would advocating M.T.V. and so on nullify my Islam. Also, if you are not Saudi can you please tell me your nationality and whether you were born into Islam or a convert?

    Thanks

  32. 32
    John Burgess Said:
    February:04:2008 - 00:00 

    I’m blocking them because he offers no argument, just insulting, bigoted pontification. Not being able to do better than call people names doesn’t get him space on this blog.

  33. 33
    Aafke Said:
    February:04:2008 - 08:42 

    I don’t like MTV either.
    I wish you hadn’t blocked him John. I also would like to know where he’s from and howcome he knows better than Sparky about KSA.
    The jewish people are everywhere Syed; deal with it. Be contend that they too, are followers of the Book.

    Saudi in USA: I think it would be very unkind to send Syed back to 700. They would not like him there. ”God is compassionate and merciful” he is neither. The prophet (pbuh) was always softspoken and polite. I think they would dump him in the desert to get rid of him.
    I don’t see Syed as fundamental, but as an aberration of the muslim faith.

    I live in Europe: people mingle freely here, I do know a couple of gays (all really nice people) but they are a very small percentage compared to all the people I know, so there is nothing to worry about :)

  34. 34
    John Burgess Said:
    February:04:2008 - 09:47 

    Due to popular demand, perhaps I won’t ban his comments. I’ll take them on a one-by-one basis.

  35. 35
    AbuSinan Said:
    February:04:2008 - 10:27 

    Homosexuality is rampant in Saudi. We can argue why that is, but there is no arguing that it is fact.

    My oldest sister in law has been a professor at a women’s university for some ten years in Jeddah. She said it is very well known that lesbianism is very common. I talked to her and she explained that whilst it was not open, it was common and that the females who were involved in this lifestyle had even come up with some common ways of letting other females know, such as wearing certain articles of clothing, or wearing certain clothing in a particular way.

    Male homosexuality is very common in the Saudi military, so much so that my father in law who had been a part of the Saudi military for years, expressed the wish that his male grandchildren never join the Saudi forces. Of course many Saudis will not even consider sex with a young boy as “homosexuality” rather it is just a way of having your needs met until you get married. However, whether they think so or not, it is homosexuality.

    I get a kick out of those Muslims who think that homosexuality must come from the West. If you know about Middle Eastern history you’d be very aware homosexuality was around long before Islam can to the Middle East and “the West” had nothing to do with it.

    I do not agree with homosexuality, but then again it isnt my choice to make. To each their own. I dont have to answer for their behavior, nor they for mine.

  36. 36
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 10:32 

    Just for starters, I am originally from Northern India, but I have grown up most of my life in the West. We in the non-Arab Muslim world generally take Islam more seriously as a faith, than many of these so-called Muslim Ahrabs, who have been intoxicated unfortunately with Western media and Coca-Cola, who tend to worship the West more than they do all-mighty Allah.

    I am entitled to my opinions. And, yes, I do know much about Saudi Arabia, because I have been there as well as to Dubai. I just want everybody to know there is a Hadeeth reference that toward Qiyamat many Muslims will adopt the lifestyle of Kuffar.
    Unfortunately, I think that is what has happened to many of the so-called Muslims writing on this webpage. Be proud of your religion and your culture, and stop trying to copy the ways of the West.

  37. 37
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 10:45 

    Also, in response to the comment about homosexuality coming from the West. I am not saying the homosexuality came from the West, but abnormal sexual diviance is far more prevalent in the West than it is in the Islamic world. Ancient Greece was hotbed for homosexual corruption, was Ancient Greece apart of the Middle East. In my country of India, we have tons of Queers. In fact, if one looks at many of the erotic temple scenes, one will find clear references to lesbianism.
    If Islam did anything, it was to help eradicate, to a great extent, filth and corruption in society, including same-sex perversions.

  38. 38
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:04:2008 - 10:54 

    Aafke,

    I do not watch MTV either or much TV for that matter. The point I was trying to make with him is that individuals can not make these choices for an entire nation. Some of those ultra religious think they have a license from God to force their opinions and understanding of religion on others. What was so funny is when he needed to use something against me, he showed his prejudice against my nationality. He just could not resist calling me a name even if it meant he will expose that he did not know much about the topic (being non Saudi).

    Unfortunately, I do not think guys like him are rare. There are enough of them out there to keep the middle east in flames for years to come. They use the internet to promote the ideology of hate with our young people. This makes it very important to face up to them.

    By the way I do not have issues with anyone rejecting modern changes like exposure to racy TV content. I just think it is an individual decision. When I raise the example of the Amish, it is out of respect for them choosing a path that is different and they go about it peacefully. I wish we have that type thinking in the middle east.

    John, I do not wish his comments to be deleted. I have grown thick skin over the years. It serves to expose this type of thinking. If I get out of line in responding, remind me and I will tone it down. Regards.

  39. 39
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 11:09 

    You listen to me, and that includes all of you. Do you read the Quran and the Hadeet? Do you practice your religion? I may not be Saudi, but you can be rest assured that I am not ignorant of the Middle East and its culture. In fact, I, in many instances, understand Islam and the Middle East better than many of these Jahil Arabs. I know what I am talking about.
    The problem with most of you is that you don’t practice your faith; otherwise, you would not be making all these ignorant comments you make. Its not a question about forcing relgious edicts and dictates on people, but Islam believes that state and relgion are not seperate, and that an Islamic society should be modeled on a Sharia-based ideoloy. Did you know that?

  40. 40
    Aafke Said:
    February:04:2008 - 11:13 

    syed, thanks for telling us where you’re from. You talk about ”the west” but what do you mean by that? ”the west” is a large part of the world. You even talk about America as if Americans are all the same. America is a really BIG place. Actually a continent, and there are very great differences in Americans.

    How many years have you spend in KSA? Have you taught at schools? How much do you know?

    You probably don’t know Abu Sinan, and Saudi in US, but as you don’t know, you surely can’t put slurs on their religion.

    And try to read better, Abu Sinan claims that Homosexuality is nothing new, and therefore not copied from the west. I agree by the way, otherwise there couldn’t be a hadith about it. And any hadith would be fairly local, and not point towards, ”the west, or America”.

    Abu Sinan, interesting information, but would things be perheaps a bit different in Jeddah?

    I like diet Coke.

  41. 41
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:04:2008 - 11:46 

    syed,

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, if your opinion is insulting, do not expect people to accept it. Also, when you hold opinions of physically harming people (i.e. executing them), your expectation that civilized people will be appalled by that and in general that will consider you uncivil.

    Regarding all your quotes about others so called Muslims, my opinion is God is the judge and you are being a hypocrite by passing judgments like those that should be passed by our God. My advise to you is to learn more about our religion and quit relying on others interpretation. Some of those are leading you in the wrong direction.

    You also should notice that you have segregated Muslims into Arabs and non Arabs which goes against the teachings of our religion.

  42. 42
    olivetheoil Said:
    February:04:2008 - 11:50 

    Its not a question about forcing relgious edicts and dictates on people, but Islam believes that state and relgion are not seperate, and that an Islamic society should be modeled on a Sharia-based ideoloy. Did you know that?

    I know I am just feeding the troll over here but Syed, you miss the point. Even if Islam in your interpretation did not separate state and religion, why should the rest of the world care? We have our own religions and happily separate the it from the state. If you don’t like it, move to a place like Iran where you would be happy and respect our decision to live life according to our interpretation.

  43. 43
    Aafke Said:
    February:04:2008 - 11:50 

    Wow, all new comments while I was writing mine!
    Saudi in US: I never meant for you to think that I think that you spend a lot of time watching MTV?
    I’m sickened by MTV, I think it’s a conspiracy to indoctrinate children, to let them think that all women are brainless sex-slaves for men, and to take emancipation away from women.

    What’s wrong with Saudi’s? Some saudi’s are happy to let schoolgirls burn to death because of a dress-code, that must be right up some peoples sleeves.

    The Amish have a very pure, religious and friendly and ”good” lifestyle, and are as such an example for everybody.
    They live in America too by the way.

    Yes, homosexuality for men was quite accepted in ancient Greece. Though not by everybody. Also because many greek men didn’t consider women worthwhile enough to have a meaningfull relationship with; they were officially part of the man’s household, and used for work and producing Greek babies (preferably male) They were let out of the house only once a year. I think that must sound really good in some peoples ears. Alexanders army was very gay; they traveled for many years and had only each other.
    And luckily for us in the west: the scholars of ancient Arabia collected, kept and translated the works of the ancient Greek philosophers and Astronomers, etc.

    Syed, have you yourselve actually really studied the Quran itself, and the hadith? All the hadith, and not somebodies interpretation of them? Because if you truly wish to emulate the prophet(pbuh) than you’re doing it all wrong; you should be more kind, you should not attack the purity of religion of people whom you don’t even know. If you are really offended, you should talk to them in a friendly way, and use a soft voice.
    And purely logically speaking, if you want to win us over to your viewpoint this would be far more effective too.

  44. 44
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:04:2008 - 12:44 

    Aafke,

    I agree with you, much of what you see on MTV is offensive and teaches the wrong morals. However, MTV has been around for over a quarter of a century and I do not think it destroyed American society. I also think there are other uses of media that are far more dangerous. A good example is Jihadi sites or white supremacy sites that teach hate and violence. Note the later are less effective at least at this time. The question is do we try to legislate morality. I think that type of strategy is doomed to failure. In the middle east some people will be appalled if you stop access to many of the religious sites even though they teach hate, but will be fine with shutting down liberal sites. Legislation of morality is a slippery slope that we should avoid.

  45. 45
    Solomon2 Said:
    February:04:2008 - 12:50 

    I am presently studying to be a P.h.D. in comparitive religions…I am originally from Northern India, but I have grown up most of my life in the West. We in the non-Arab Muslim world generally take Islam more seriously as a faith, than many of these so-called Muslim Ahrabs

    Have you not learned that the anger you are experiencing, Syed Saboor, is neither unique nor limited to Islam, but experienced by many who at least at one point in their lives sacrificed material well-being in favor of spiritual rewards, yet discover others whom they think should behave the same way yet choose differently? Great anger can be the result of such encounters.

    Have you chosen a thesis topic yet? Don’t you think that a worthy one would be to study how followers of the three great Abrahamic religions treat such situations, both in the past and today?

  46. 46
    AbuSinan Said:
    February:04:2008 - 12:50 

    Jeddah would be a bit more open that most other places, but trust me when I say things like this are happening all over Saudi. I was VERY surprised when a young Saudi lady I know, from Qassim, talked about a “lover’s lane” in Riyadh, a well known place where the young meet and get up to no good. Jeddah I wasnt surprised, Riyadh I was a bit.

    Syed,

    I suspect since you are so worried about “imitating the kuffar” that you have now left the Kuffar filled west and no inhabit a suitable Muslim country? Of course where you were born in Indian certainly doesnt count, that country is full of idol worshipping pagans.

    I also hope you no longer wear pants, as that is “immitating the kuffar” as is wearing t-shirts, drinking soda, eating any sort of fast food. Or, I am might add, having a work ethic.

    Yeah, I know I joke about the work ethic, but I think Syed is a bit of a joke as well. Too bad so many of these jokes are out there and willing to kill others for their twsited ideas.

    BTW Syed, the computer is a kuffar invention and spending time on it is immitating the kuffar, so in furthering your deen I suggest you stop using a computer and writing on blogs NOW or you are putting yourself in jeopardy of going to hell.

  47. 47
    Sparky Said:
    February:04:2008 - 14:09 

    I believe Syed needs rehabilitated and I am glad John is not blocking his comments. You might not agree Syed and I would never force myself into making you believe you need to be rehabilitated because you are free to be who and what you choose.

    However, I sincerely believe that if you reached for better feelings like frustration with things opposed to rage you would feel relief and better. The real issue is not even about homosexuality. It is about carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders feeling like it is your responsibility to fix everybody else. When one realizes that it is not their responsibility to fix anyone but themselves and that they are accountable for themselves only then will all the anger just gradually begin to fade away. I don’t believe Allah wants us to be so preoccupied about eliminating vice from the earth like homosexuality as much as he wants to give us guidance that will help us carry on in our lives…in joyful way.

    I struggled with this issue of feeling like I had to hate gays only because of the influences around me. I tried it for a while. Finally I would encounter someone who I knew was gay as can be and they would be the nicest person ever. I came to realize that to hate them would be a sin. I realized in my hate I was only causing myself headache and pain. I was causing myself unnecessary stress. Stress that in no way could be lessened with persisting in the thoughts I was holding. My hating them did nothing to make their numbers diminish nor did it make them straight. I realized that they are human like everybody else with feelings, and they are very capable of loving and crying as much as I am.

    I then said I can dislike the act of what they do, but what and who they are in no way threatens me or my family…because we all have choices. It is not my job to “fix” them because I couldn’t. Nobody can “fix” anybody because we are all here with our own free will be it Muslim or otherwise and Allah even says that.

    I can express my likes and dislikes but it is not my business to eliminate. I can tolerate gays. That doesn’t mean you will see me in the next gay march. All it means is they have a right to exist…Whatever becomes of them or anyone else is a result of their own actions but I choose that every person that I interact whether I agree with what they do or not that I will embrace them with warm thoughts of love. I am in no way weakened in my own beliefs because other people have opposing beliefs.

    Because it is through my love of my fellow human being, I find ultimate peace within myself.

  48. 48
    Aafke Said:
    February:04:2008 - 14:27 

    Sparky, that is a very beautiful and inspiring post.

  49. 49
    Sparky Said:
    February:04:2008 - 14:44 

    Thank you Aafke…it truly comes from the depths of my soul.

  50. 50
    Abu Sinan Said:
    February:04:2008 - 15:44 

    What is interesting is the fact that many homophobes are themselves secretly homosexual. Their fear, hate and loathing for homosexuals comes from their inner hatred of theirselves.

    This is why, although I disagree with homosexuality, it doesnt bother me that much. I knew one homosexual once and he said that it is the homophobes that are the ones that are most likely to come onto them when they get a chance.

    That could be the issue here.

  51. 51
    zani Said:
    February:04:2008 - 16:20 

    Ok guys
    i have heard a lot of bickering—and now its my turn!!!
    im an american muslim of southeast asian origin (if that matters), but i respectfully disagree with mr. saboor—-Mr.saboor seems an intelligent person but i believe he is 2 rigid and narrow in his interpretation of islam—anyways, my point is, no one person(ex saboor)or group (ex qaeda) or govt. (ex saudi arabia/iran) has da rite 2 impose their version of islam on anybody or society for that matter—even though im pretty open and liberal minded, i dont watch MTV, not becuz of da haraam or halaal issue, but becuz frankly it sucks—i rather enjoy more Bollywood hits—I personally dont believe that MTV or Coca Cola is a western,jewish,or CIA conspiracy per se, that its just a product of wider american pop culture which has been exported around da globe—nothing more, nothing less—just like we c little china towns all over da world—-in north and south america, western europe, australia etc—Now is that a Chinese govt. communist conspiracy?? Absolutely NO!!! unless ur a Lou Dobbs type bigoted conspiracist. Its just that they have da biggest population in da whole world and through centuries, Chinese ppl have left their motherland 2 other differents countries and continents 2 escape political persecution or for better economic opportunities so their culture is quite widespread throughout da globe.
    about lesbiaism in saudi—thats nothing new or for that matter homosexuality—as a person who once resided there and has relatives and friends currently working there, its pretty much an open secret that homo/lesbianism is rampant throughout da kingdom—i personally believe that 2 much of a rigid interpretation of religion with no room for fun or enjoyment or normal interaction with da opposite sex except perhaps ur moma,grandma, or sister leads 2 psychological as well as sexual frustrations and that makes one desperate and 2 act in weird behavior—no wonder a relative of mine, a psychologist said that incest as well as homo/lesb was widespread—even when i was there, i was proposed many times by men as well as women—of couse, i aint a faggot so men’s advances were rejected but we would invite women over at our special compound and spend time—even abroad in dubai and europe, i had personally dated many saudi women, and shockingly most married but beautiful as compared 2 single—its just da rigid and unforgiving atmosphere which compels most saudi men and women 2 act bizarre
    and da religious bearded saudis, believe me, many of them r no angles either—its an open secret, that most, though not all, r pedophiles becuz they cum for impotence problems (i know this through some docs i know) and knowingly or accidently reveal their luv for small nubile boyz.

  52. 52
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 20:02 

    For one thing I am not a faggot. In addition, Americans are scum of the earth trash. And you Arabs are bunch of ediots. And maybe going to Iran may not be a bad idea.

  53. 53
    Aafke Said:
    February:04:2008 - 20:12 

    Excellent, and don’t forget Iraq, Al-Qaida has now had to resort to mentally deranged women, detonated on remote. I’m sure they’ll be happy to have you.

    I wish you had read Sparky’s infinitely superior post, and learned from it.

  54. 54
    olivetheoil Said:
    February:04:2008 - 20:23 

    And you Arabs are bunch of ediots.

    At least they can spell better….

  55. 55
    Solomon2 Said:
    February:04:2008 - 20:32 

    Americans are scum of the earth trash.

    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

  56. 56
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 20:44 

    Louis Farrakhan, Pat Buchanun, David Duke, Adolf Hitler, great men. All of you, I am not to sure about.

  57. 57
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 21:19 

    You talk about pedastry among bearded Saudi mullahs. Actually, if anybody excels in that it is all these faggot Catholic priests.

  58. 58
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 21:49 

    I really think we all need to read “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion,” to realize what is going on here.

  59. 59
    John Burgess Said:
    February:04:2008 - 21:58 

    Okay, people. Tell me why I shouldn’t ban Mr. Saboor?

    He insults me, he insults others. He insults entire religions and ethnic groups.

    He displays that he speaks from ignorance, e.g., ‘The Protocols’, known to be a forged documents for over 100 years is cited as some sort of evidence.

    He displays hate, disdain, intolerance.

    Convince me why his opinions should not be put in the garbage where they belong. His amusement value is very limited in my book, because he is exactly the type to commit violence in trying to attain his fantasy of a perfect Islamic state. I’m not a psychologist, but he sure meets the ordinary definition of crazy.

    Without some very good reason to dissuade me, I’m going to be far happier not having to read his rank and foul idiocies.

  60. 60
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:04:2008 - 22:07 

    John, I am convinced of your opinion. He has gone mad. There is no talking to him at this point. Syed sounds like someone that is going to blow-up soon. I just hope he does not take others with him in his way to earning the Darwin Award.

  61. 61
    Solomon2 Said:
    February:04:2008 - 22:12 

    John, please be patient just a bit longer.

    Since we don’t have the benefit of your thinking, Mr. Saboor, why don’t you explain to us – as briefly as possible – “what is going on here” as best you can?

  62. 62
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 22:33 

    Let me explain this to you. I love my God and my religion, and I am sick of how America corrupts the world with its immorality, including many Muslims. Allah made Adam and Eve and not two people of the same sex. It is only logical that healthy sexuality was meant between a man and woman. Two men and two women cannot have children.
    I grew up all my life in America, and I have come to hate the moral degradation America has come to symbolize in the world. Contrary to what many of you have been saying, I am not prone to violence and I am not going to blow up soon. I agree there is corruption in the Islamic world, but many Zionist elements in the United States are exploiting that and exagerating that to meet their agenda for the neo-colonization of the Islamic world. Isn’t that what the neo-conservatives in the Bush administration are doing at this very moment. If one lives by religious principles, which I do, then you must understand where I am coming from. I am offended my adultery, deviant behavior, pornography, and all else that is contrary to the teachings of the Holy Quran and the Hadeeth. We all have are views, but respect mine, and stop trying to do some Freudian psychoanalysis on my mental state of mind.

  63. 63
    Saudi in US Said:
    February:04:2008 - 23:04 

    stop trying to do some Freudian psychoanalysis on my mental state of mind.

    Wrong assumption. I would never over reach like that and assume you have a mind :)

  64. 64
    syed saboor Said:
    February:04:2008 - 23:28 

    Listen up camel man, I have a mind, unlike you sorry excuse for an Arab. Before Islam came, you Arabs were camel riding losers. Unfortunately with Islam, many of you Arabs are still camel riding losers. At least Iranians have class, culture, and education, which most of Arabs don’t have any of, which is why your Saudi Arabia is mainly populated by foreigners, because you can’t run the country on your own, on account of your stupidity.

    Saboor: You’re a bigoted idiot who knows nothing of humanity and very little of a religion that considers itself merciful. I’m sorry you got in with the wrong crowd (Deobandis, was it?) but your version of Islam is an insult to the billions who follow it.

    I will not stand for you to call Saudis ‘camel man’. I will not stand for you to piss on Jews. How many Jews have you ever met that qualifies you to judge them.

    I will not stand for your calling my mother, my wife, my sister ‘whores’–they are all Western women whom you condemn as such.

    Take your mania and play with it. Your mental and moral masturbation has no place here.

    You are no long welcome to comment here and I really don’t give a flip if that ‘proves’ anything to you. The only thing it proves is that I have limits on what behavior I consider acceptable.

    The example you provide of the ‘crazy enraged Muslim’ is already being filled by a sufficient number of others. We don’t need another. You bring no wit, no wisdom, nothing but insults to this blog.

    Future comments from you will be deleted as soon as I find them.

    I wish you the peace that God promises to all. But you’re going to have to work much, much harder than most people to get through your malign anger.

    Goodbye.

  65. 65
    Solomon2 Said:
    February:04:2008 - 23:31 

    I am Koheleth; I was king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I applied my heart to inquire and to search with wisdom all that was done under the heaven. It is a sore task that God has given to the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.I saw all the deeds that were done under the sun, and behold, everything is vanity and frustration…

    “I said to myself, “Come now, I will mix [wine] with joy and experience pleasure”; and behold, this too was vanity. Of laughter, I said, “[It is] mingled”; and concerning joy, “What does this accomplish?”

    “I have seen the occupation that God gave to the sons of men with which to occupy themselves. He has made everything beautiful in its time; also the [wisdom of] the world He put into their hearts, save that man should not find the deed which God did, from beginning to end. I knew that there is nothing better for them but to rejoice and to do good during his lifetime. And also, every man who eats and drinks and enjoys what is good in all his toil, it is a gift of God…

    “And I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, her hands are bonds; whoever is good in God’s sight will escape from her, and a sinner will be taken by her…

    “Enjoy life with the wife whom you love all the days of the life of your vanity, whom He has given you under the sun, all the days of your vanity, for that is your portion in life and in your toil that you toil under the sun…”

    Are you sure you had to leave America to escape Hollywood or “degradation”, rather than just choose wisely? I think not. In Western society, Mr. Saboor, every citizen is so enobled that he or she has virtually the same freedom of choice as the kings of old. Therefore I do not resent the opportunity people have to tread a path similar to that of King Solomon, with all its joys and pitfalls:

    “I returned and saw under the sun, that the race does not belong to the swift, nor the war to the mighty; neither do the wise have bread, nor do the understanding have riches, nor the knowledgeable, favor; for time and fate will overtake them all…

    “The end of the matter, everything having been heard, fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the entire man.”

    It is my judgment that the level of holiness attainable by free people is ultimately greater than that of those who are merely subjects, as they may simply wear a mask of compliance under force of compulsion. What say you, Mr. Saboor?

    Sorry, Solomon. You will not be seeing any reply from Mr. Saboor. He’s outta here.

  66. 66
    zani Said:
    February:04:2008 - 23:41 

    Look Mr. saboor
    im no fan of Bush or american foreign policy either but i do have da mental sense 2 distinguish american ppl from american govt.—- im a punjabi american muslim—-and when u said that “americans r da scum of da earth”—u abused me as well as thousands of others american muslims—-u have no rite 2 insult anyone—yes, u may disagree with american govt. or its policies, but 2 thrash an entire nation is just uncalled for—and mr.saboor, if america is such a horrible and evil nation, then y dont u take da next flite out 2 tehran or pyongyang or join zarqawi and company in da shithole—-ppl like u have a defeatist mentality—yes, i know there is racism here—as an asian american as well as muslim i do feel it—sometimes i feel angry—but i know for one redneck racist type american i encounter, there will be five others who will treat me with respect and wont discriminate me for my ethnic origin and religion—u actually dont realize what a great land america is at da end of da day despite all its negatives–go outside america especially 2 a third world country, and then u will truly realize its worth and b ashamed of ur cursing it.

  67. 67
    ratherdashing Said:
    February:05:2008 - 00:30 

    On the topic of homosexuality and religion:

    When I was a new Christian learning more about the faith I was brought closer to God by the instruction of a man in a Bible study group. He later revealed to me that he considered himself a homosexual. He wrestled daily with this contradiction but remained steadfast in his love of Christ. I could see that it tore him apart. His mother and father were devoted believers and shared this struggle with him.

    Up to that point in my life, I also had a strong aversion to homosexuality. I am very much heterosexual and still see homosexuality as a sin, today. But the God of the Bible lists that sin along with others such as gossip, deceit, malice, and slander. I am as much a sinner (if not more) as the homosexual and God still loves us both unconditionally. It’s hard to fathom sometimes.

  68. 68
    Sparky Said:
    February:05:2008 - 06:26 

    I vote to ban Syed. You have my blessing John. We tried talking nicely with him but he was vulgar and rude. You are right Syed…people like you don’t belong around people like us.

    And you will never ever hope to be as good as the West or America. America has more power than you can dream of, so I would be careful if I were you!

  69. 69
    Aafke Said:
    February:05:2008 - 07:58 

    Yeah, John, Ban Him!!!
    But I did think it was an interesting experience. I suppose people like these usually spend their time on Arabic sites, which I can’t read.
    And everybody else here is intelligent and reasonable. So I really enjoyed a view of the other side.

  70. 70
    olivetheoil Said:
    February:05:2008 - 10:08 

    Well John, at least Syed provided some good laughs while he lasted. I can’t believe he is for real. Maybe some 16 year old somewhere living up to the stereotype.

  71. 71
    Abu Sinan Said:
    February:05:2008 - 11:06 

    You know, after reading this guy’s posts again, I wonder if he wasnt a wind up. I dont think he was for real. I have known extremists and they dont talk like that.

    I think he was someone playing at being an extremist.

    John, if you can check is ISP number, tell us where he is posting from. I think we have been had. lol

  72. 72
    John Burgess Said:
    February:05:2008 - 11:57 

    Wind up or not, he’s now in the spam directory. If it’s a joke, then it misses my sense of humor by miles and I don’t want or need the nonsense here.

    His IP is 75.4.148.2, which goes to ATT in Chicago, via Richardson, TX.

  73. 73
    Abu Sinan Said:
    February:05:2008 - 13:40 

    I guess if he is for real he is nothing more than a big mouth. Here he is sitting in the “land of the kuffar” talking about others. I suggest he jump the first plane for a remote cave in Afghanistan!

  74. 74
    syed saboor Said:
    February:16:2008 - 21:28 

    I am not a big mouth. Also, John who asked you to this website, Howard Stern by any chance. The subject matter certainly fits his show!

    The comment above gives an inkling of why I’m deleting Mr. Saboor’s comments whenever they appear.

  75. 75
    iqbal Ahmed Said:
    June:15:2008 - 17:52 

    I am rather surprised to read all the comments with regard to homosexuality. It is there no one can deny it.In my opinion every one is accountable for their own actions.When muslims came from all over the world to America, they brought a culture, a new faith, peace, a civilization which majority of Americans were not aware of it. We have to learn lot of good things from Americans . Together we can build a nation which can benefit the whole world. As a matter of fact , a jewish American recommended me for the state job. Majotity of Americans do not like the foreign policy , and they are also afraid of their own government.

  76. 76
    syed saboor Said:
    July:03:2008 - 19:54 

    Jew Bastards!

    The inimitable Sayed strikes again!

  77. 77
    syed saboor Said:
    July:03:2008 - 20:24 

    Oh, you think that was something. In the words of the great Lewis Farrakhan, “Hitler was a wickedly clever man.”

  78. 78
    olivetheoil Said:
    July:03:2008 - 23:29 

    Awwww! Mr Saboor tries so hard to be entertaining:)

  79. 79
    Sparky Said:
    July:04:2008 - 03:42 

    To be honest Mr. Saboor doesn’t make any damn sense to me. He is not even making any point on anything!

  80. 80
    John Burgess Said:
    July:04:2008 - 09:21 

    No, he doesn’t. He seems to have some nebulous weight on his chest that he needs to vent about. I guess it’s better that he find some harmless outlet for his anger than picking up a weapon.

  81. 81
    Solomon2 Said:
    July:04:2008 - 16:59 

    You still didn’t answer my question, Syed. I’m sure you’ve had enough time to think about it. Love “your God and your religion”, yes, but have you considered that by simultaneously claiming the moral high ground and condemning everybody else without question you are mocking yourself by discrediting the very faith you profess?

    [16.125] Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.

  82. 82
    Anon Said:
    July:04:2008 - 17:08 

    A few comments:

    #1) People like him do more damage to the view of Islam worldwide than any persuasive argument by the Neocons. Are we sure he is not some Rumsfeld retiree trying to freak people out? Or perhaps more likely, a couple teenagers having fun with reasonable people interested in a moderate society.

    #2) Pascal was right when he said the greatest crimes that were performed with the clearest consciences were performed in the name of religion.

    #3) When the west hears that Muslims are called to make converts everwhere they go…commentary from guys like this scare the h—out of them.

    Another comment: When it comes to blogging these days people are very brave behind a keyboard and say things they would never have the guts to say face to face.

  83. 83
    syed saboor Said:
    August:31:2008 - 14:42 

    Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, victims of American aggression.

    Syed: You are no longer welcome to comment here. I’ve deleted comments that were nothing but racist name-calling already, but you didn’t seem to get the hint. All future comments from you will be deleted; all future comments from your address will be deleted.

    Go troll somewhere else, please. JB

  84. 84
    FAR Said:
    December:14:2008 - 02:21 

    Such an interesting topic. Oh it’s not closed yet.

    I’m not supprised at the rate of homosexual or same sex fornication.

    I’ll blame it on a few things:

    - raising the minimum age of marriage, from natural menarche age in women and abiliti to provide age for men, to whatever age value.
    - Synthetic, unnatural and unorganic food consuption (soy and other such, which would explain some of syed saboor) which creates genetic anomolies.
    - Lack of understand how to deal with the homosexual human, and how avoid same sex relationship but choosing a homosexual partner can be better for that said homosexual individual (Refer to Andrea Dworkin).

  85. 85
    seeta Said:
    July:27:2010 - 19:42 

    i’m saudi & i’m a lesbian. but i’m pretty sure it’s not because of the separation between boys & girls in saudi it’s just the way i am. i have no sexual feelings towards men at ALL, & i’ve come to feel comfortable with myself & more confident about it knowing that i cannot control it. men and women in saudi or all around the world should be given the freedom to be who they are & it’s true that some of these girls are lesbians only because they can’t find any emotional feelings from the opposite sex, but i can’t do anything but feel sorry for them. every human deserves the chance to experience love & live their life

  86. 86
    Chiara Said:
    July:27:2010 - 21:42 

    Seeta–thank you for sharing your experience and insight. I am glad you are comfortable with your sexual orientation, and I hope you find love and happiness in your life.

  87. 87
    Sparky Said:
    July:29:2010 - 13:50 

    Chiara have you stolen John’s blog??? Dude that’s the way it looks to me. you have have threatened to sue for libel here…you answer and respond to like flippin everything and now you are Dr. Ruth.

  88. 88
    Chiara Said:
    July:29:2010 - 16:52 

    Sparky–no need for inflammatory comments. I have merely commented as one commentator to another on Seeta’s sharing a challenging personal story. No threats were made, just a demonstration of the limitations of free speech. Thanks for reminding me though to follow up on another post. :)

  89. 89
    Sparky Said:
    July:29:2010 - 17:23 

    All I can say is John I hope you are enjoying your vacation…and time away. No worries, Chiara is here to police the blog and let us know there are limitations and that there is no need for inflammatory comments. She has got is alllll covered. Way to go Chiara. Go for that other post :-)

    Here is my limitation “Catch me if you can” beach nigga.

  90. 90
    Chiara Said:
    July:29:2010 - 18:46 

    Sparky-Thanks for your encouragement! :)

  91. 91
    Sparky Said:
    July:30:2010 - 02:00 

    Chiara- you are welcome :-)

    I had a really twisted sick and disturbing athought last night.

    I couldn’t sleep well. Here goes:

    “What if Chiara was an alter ego of John?”

    ROTFL

  92. 92
    Chiara Said:
    July:30:2010 - 07:53 

    Sparky–ROTFL indeed! May you be spared further disturbed thoughts and sleep! :)

  93. 93
    Sparky Said:
    July:30:2010 - 07:58 

    Thank you but as long as John is not here I won’t be sleeping well. :-)

  94. 94
    Sparky Said:
    August:10:2010 - 10:19 

    Syed Saboor…like what are you? You definately aren’t gay, a jew or an arab that leaves many other things. John has always been respectful of different people. I think you could learn a lot from him. It seems gay and lesbian a key words for you to prop up your ugly head.

  95. 95
    Syed Saboor Said:
    November:04:2010 - 00:03 

    Well, you jackoffs can play your games. But if you want the truth listen to me on thepoweroftruthradio.com. I host a show called “America in Focus,” that blows the lid of all your wild chananigans.

    [Two further, obscenity laden comments deleted.]

  96. 96
    Syed Saboor Said:
    November:04:2010 - 12:04 

    xxxx you, xxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx!!!!!

    [Eloquent comment from Mr Saboor, edited to remove vulgarity and religious/ethnic aspersions.]

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