Comments on: Rumor & Consequence http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/ Informed comment and commentary about Saudi Arabia, reform, and its relations with the US Wed, 16 May 2012 23:44:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Divine Mercy http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-801 Divine Mercy Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:36:40 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-801 Great points John. Al: forgive me for holding you responsible for your own world view. To downplay Abu Gharaib (atrocity and human rights abuses) by comparing it to Saddam Hussein's crimes (more atrocities) is tatamount to saying that the U.S. is not responsible for it's behaviour, since you can personally jot off worse crimes. We should not "one up" each other on crimes, to excuse our own crimes, we should want America to be the example of human rights. So, let's just ignore all crimes against humanity, and revert to the deaths caused by Hitler, since he this crime was so horrifying. That in turn should ease our conscience a bit. Phew. I Love my country, enough to admit when it's wrong, and to keep our principles as a country based on freedom for all, on it's toes. Tough love, not denial. Great points John.

Al: forgive me for holding you responsible for your own world view.

To downplay Abu Gharaib (atrocity and human rights abuses) by comparing it to Saddam Hussein’s crimes (more atrocities) is tatamount to saying that the U.S. is not responsible for it’s behaviour, since you can personally jot off worse crimes. We should not “one up” each other on crimes, to excuse our own crimes, we should want America to be the example of human rights.

So, let’s just ignore all crimes against humanity, and revert to the deaths caused by Hitler, since he this crime was so horrifying. That in turn should ease our conscience a bit. Phew.

I Love my country, enough to admit when it’s wrong, and to keep our principles as a country based on freedom for all, on it’s toes. Tough love, not denial.

]]> By: Opinionated Bastard http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-795 Opinionated Bastard Mon, 23 May 2005 18:41:24 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-795 I agree with all that, except this belief that once upon a time, the rest of the world thought we were these magical fairies dispensing joy and happiness whereever we went. Never happened. I agree with all that, except this belief that once upon a time, the rest of the world thought we were these magical fairies dispensing joy and happiness whereever we went.

Never happened.

]]> By: Al Superczynski http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-800 Al Superczynski Sun, 22 May 2005 04:40:19 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-800 We'll just have to agree to disagree then, John. IMO you're engaging in rhetorical inflation. We’ll just have to agree to disagree then, John. IMO you’re engaging in rhetorical inflation.

]]> By: (A different) John http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-799 (A different) John Sun, 22 May 2005 04:29:08 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-799 The Messiah walked on earth one millenium before the birth of the hate mongerer. He will once again, and lead his flock to safety. Understand that there are two forces in all that is physical, or spiritual. The balance will shift to the negative before the tribulation, which according to Malachy is eminent. The Messiah walked on earth one millenium before the birth of the hate mongerer. He will once again, and lead his flock to safety. Understand that there are two forces in all that is physical, or spiritual. The balance will shift to the negative before the tribulation, which according to Malachy is eminent.

]]> By: John http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-798 John Sat, 21 May 2005 13:26:36 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-798 Al, everything you cite is an atrocity. What happened at Abu Ghraib, as is alleged to have happened in Afghanistan and at Guantanamo, are equally atrocities. It's not like someone's complaining because he got hit by a spitball. Perhaps English is insufficiently rich to define the various kinds of atrocities in way you'd prefer. Should we go to some sort of mathematical notation? Is the mother of someone beaten to death only entitled to allege a minor-league atrocity? Al, everything you cite is an atrocity. What happened at Abu Ghraib, as is alleged to have happened in Afghanistan and at Guantanamo, are equally atrocities. It’s not like someone’s complaining because he got hit by a spitball.

Perhaps English is insufficiently rich to define the various kinds of atrocities in way you’d prefer.

Should we go to some sort of mathematical notation? Is the mother of someone beaten to death only entitled to allege a minor-league atrocity?

]]> By: Al Superczynski http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-797 Al Superczynski Sat, 21 May 2005 06:08:26 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-797 You cheapen the word 'atrocity' by linking it with what a few American soldiers did at Abu Ghraib. What Saddam's thugs used to do at Abu Ghraib was an atrocity. What 15 Saudi citizens did on 9-11-01 was an atrocity... You cheapen the word ‘atrocity’ by linking it with what a few American soldiers did at Abu Ghraib. What Saddam’s thugs used to do at Abu Ghraib was an atrocity. What 15 Saudi citizens did on 9-11-01 was an atrocity…

]]> By: Tom Carter http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-796 Tom Carter Fri, 20 May 2005 22:59:30 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-796 John, I support the thrust of your argument, but I think there's a little too much moral relativism woven in. In particular, I object to the statement "it is a fact that American soldiers are no less immune to the abuse of power than, say, UN peacekeepers in Africa are to using their power to obtain sexual favors." That's blatantly untrue. I spent most of my life as an American soldier, and I know a lot, directly and indirectly, about UN troops. There is, in fact, no comparison. The cultural chasm that exists is not just between the Muslim world and the U.S.; it's between the Muslim world and western civilization. In that regard, I'd refer you to this short <a href="http://tcarter.blogspot.com/2005/05/more-on-real-villains.html">post</a>. John, I support the thrust of your argument, but I think there’s a little too much moral relativism woven in.

In particular, I object to the statement “it is a fact that American soldiers are no less immune to the abuse of power than, say, UN peacekeepers in Africa are to using their power to obtain sexual favors.” That’s blatantly untrue. I spent most of my life as an American soldier, and I know a lot, directly and indirectly, about UN troops. There is, in fact, no comparison.

The cultural chasm that exists is not just between the Muslim world and the U.S.; it’s between the Muslim world and western civilization. In that regard, I’d refer you to this short post.

]]> By: John http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-791 John Thu, 19 May 2005 03:43:32 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-791 You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but I certainly don't agree with it. If you mean, by "ruling party" the Republican party, then you're a bit paranoid there. If you mean by "controlling interests" the Christian right, you're right insofar as the intolerance goes, but they're nowhere near in control. You’re welcome to your opinion, of course, but I certainly don’t agree with it. If you mean, by “ruling party” the Republican party, then you’re a bit paranoid there. If you mean by “controlling interests” the Christian right, you’re right insofar as the intolerance goes, but they’re nowhere near in control.

]]> By: BigDuke http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-782 BigDuke Wed, 18 May 2005 22:04:01 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-782 <!-- spamk : Used HTTP_VIA header. --> <!-- spamk : Waaaay too many links: 0 --> <!-- spamk : Comment on VERY old post. --> <!-- spamk : CAPTCHA: approved --> <!-- spamk : KARMA: -2 --> <!-- spamk : Treatment: captcha --> "The first flaw lies in intolerance. Much of the Arab and Muslim world believes that there is only “one, true way". That way, of course, is Islamic. Rather than accepting that 5/6 of the world does not agree, they see it as a challenge, a challenge to convert the majority, if not an outright need for military clashes." Substitute "Christian" for "Muslim" and you have the attitude of the contoling interests of the ruling party in the USA



“The first flaw lies in intolerance. Much of the Arab and Muslim world believes that there is only “one, true way”. That way, of course, is Islamic. Rather than accepting that 5/6 of the world does not agree, they see it as a challenge, a challenge to convert the majority, if not an outright need for military clashes.”

Substitute “Christian” for “Muslim” and you have the attitude of the contoling interests of the ruling party in the USA

]]> By: John http://xrdarabia.org/2005/05/17/rumor-and-consequence/comment-page-1/#comment-783 John Wed, 18 May 2005 20:33:45 +0000 http://xrdarabia.org/?p=958#comment-783 The torture and death of a single individual is an atrocity. That of a multitude, is also an atrocity. I am not looking to put them side-by-side, in some calculus of horror. They are all horrible. The torture and death of a single individual is an atrocity. That of a multitude, is also an atrocity. I am not looking to put them side-by-side, in some calculus of horror. They are all horrible.

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